Taylor Swift vs Nicki Minaj

noblegiraffe

it doesn't matter whether NM was right about race discrimination, the point is that she was talking about race.

but to answer your question... one example isn't enough to negate the point. There are a few women CEOs around, it doesn't mean there's no gender discrimination in the workplace.

Beyonce is much more European looking than NM though.

Is there discrimination against black women if Beyonce's video was shortlisted?

I find this thread depressing too. It doesn't matter if you think the video is gross/immoral/whatever. NM has every right to be surprised it wasn't nominated, because it was a hugely popular video with a huge impact on popular culture.

The point is that rightly or no, NM talked about discrimination against black women. The emphasis was on the race discrimination, and TS completely missed that. Which is why she's coming across as privileged and self-absorbed.

I'll have a lot more respect for TS if she can admit that her response was tone-deaf.

I watched the Anaconda video and found it depressing that once again we have a young girl getting her kit off and waving her body in a man's face and calling it empowering.

Nicki Minajs video is revolutionary because everything in society tells black women they should hate themselves, that our value is measured in our proximity to whiteness.

The problem with the video is that it is not revolutionary, because once again it tells women that their value is measured in their ability to give a man an erection.

I understand that NM is suffering from racism but just object that her video is positive for black women/any other colour of woman IYSWIM. I detest TS and all other crappy music singers like that, their videos are not positive in any way either. They should be band

I will have a Google of those names..

Shaska!

Sorry the post does read as though I was responding to you on that point, on my phone and can't scroll properly. That point was meant for Shabaka

I didn't say you did X I was responding to Shaka

Kevin I didn't say it was an accurate representation.

Also I don't really care for Kate bush.

March I am very serious if you would like to read up on how societies depiction of blacks women's bodies is politicised I can suggest bell hooks and Sylvia wynter.

March I am very serious. If you would like to read up on how the depiction of black women's bodies is politicised I can suggest bell hooks and Sylvia wynter.

Who caress about years and years, the point I was making is about Kate Bush

I don't think all black women would thank you for claiming that Anaconda is an accurate representation off their sexuality either.

By that I mean that I don't see how NM video is positive in any way shape or form.

Nicki Minajs video is revolutionary because everything in society tells black women they should hate themselves, that our value is measured in our proximity to whiteness

You can't be serious.

This thread is fucking depressing but then again white feminism generally is, for context black women's bodies are brutalised, attacked and ridiculed. Our featured are only deemed attractive or worthy when white women have them.
jezebel.com/we-need-to-talk-about-butt-selfie-queen-jen-selter-1563509079

Nicki Minajs video is revolutionary because everything in society tells black women they should hate themselves, that our value is measured in our proximity to whiteness.

Missy Elliots videos also contained hot black women dancing, years and years are a bland boring imitation of early 90s house music.

There was plenty of talk on the nature of Miley's videos too when they were released - y'know the skinny rich white girl

What does "her version of sexuality" actually mean?

Is there lots of talk about how disgusting black female sexuality is? Or just how horrible the video is? Would it have got a different response if Miley had made it? (substitute twerking for some other sexualised dance to avoid appropriation of black culture issues).

Lot of talk about how disgusting black female sexuality is on this thread, huh.

Personally, I struggle with the way all Taylor Swift's 'best friends' are slim, rich white women, with the half exception of Lena Dunham. If you check the pics of Lena on stage with Taylor recently, I suspect Lena has a couple of reservations of her own about this.

Were I Taylor Swift, I would probably be a bit more wary of telling other women they're doing feminism wrong, particularly if those women had a valid point about having made a hugely successful video. The VMAs don't care if a video is morally sound, and I do think it's weird Anaconda wasn't nominated, no matter how I might personally feel about its content. Minaj has every right to speculate on why that might be, and she presumably is aware it's not the skinny white girls who pick the noms - so I don't think it could be classed as a personal attack at all. Just an observation she made, that were I in her position I might be tempted to make too.

But let's focus on her fake butt, or how gross/stupid/eeeewww her version of sexuality is instead, right?

Also,wrt to Anaconda being a 'cultural reference point' surely NM can only claim that if/when it stands the test of time. Years and years reference KateBush in this song THIRTY YEARS after running up that hill was released. THAT's A reference point Imo not flopping your arse cheeks about on video

If I were TS, I'd start being a bit less interactive on Twitter and Instagram. I think she can pull back a bit and still make a ton of cash. She's already evolving to Kylie status so she can afford to do that. That's just my bit of PR theory for the day

skimming posts as I should be working!

DadWasHere - your post has said so much so eloquently.

to the person who said about Taylor referencing Minaj with the twerking in Shake it Off - I didn't know that's what it was referencing but I did think "woah, incredibly low moment for T there" but also I hated Lily Allen using so much of that in "hard out here" - she even had full on twerking dancers when she performed that one, it wasn't just in the video.

Someone also mentioned the "message" in the Bad Blood video. I don't take that message as "I'm going to go and beat up the person who pissed me off" any more than I take Rihanna's video message to be "I'm going to torture the wife of anyone who doesn't pay what they owe". Of course their experience will inform their creative endeavours, but I don't think they are "sending a message".

Nicki Minaj is tiny as well, she just has a big - apparently not natural, according to this thread? - butt, but other than that is tiny.

I do hate all of the pop culture that sees waving women's flesh around as part of some kind of norm. I don't think Bad Blood goes down that road. I can see what is sexual and stylised about it but there's a massive difference between that and the "get your bits out for the lads" mentality that informs the Nicki Minaj video.