Drag queens banned from Pride event "because they may offend transgender people"

Yes exactly OfficerVanHalen! I love a bit of OTT gender performance... surely at one level it's deconstructing ridiculous stereotypes in a cheery, ironic sort of way?

Peak trans, indeed !

Firstly, this is not Glasgow Pride. It's "Free Pride" which is totally independent from Glasgow Pride.

Secondly, "The decision was taken by transgender individuals who...". I wonder how many? I've just been checking the opinions of trans people and I've only found one that agrees with the banning from this separate spin off event. Most think drag queens are just another colour in the rainbow, the complainers are professionally offended, or it's a deliberate publicity stunt.

Free Pride

Glasgow Pride

Some drag acts are misogynist, some aren't, some are funny, some aren't, some are talented, some aren't.

I can't see the problem for people who are transgender, even after reading the explanation.

Generally I think it's a positive that men are saying "why can't we identify as men and still like the sparkly stuff" and subverting gender norms.

I love the fact that (generally speaking) the only people who wear heels on a pride march are men

Haha, and another few thousand people hit trans-peak!

Sit back and relax, they are doing a fantastic job of alienating everyone. Funny they have not yet
are attempts to curtail or control any white heterosexual male activities or spaces

But, ok in my experience of drag it's not a parody of women - it's a parody of certain tropes. Usually involving sequins and cattiness. And I'm kind of fine with that being a joke.

Men wearing dresses because they want to wear dresses as men, that's different, to me, and a complete non-issue.

Surely living as part of society means accepting other people may be different to you.

I fully understand and accept that not everyone shares my values, I respect their right to live their lives as equal citizens (as long as they live within the law). To be quite blunt I don't care who you shag, the gender you identify with or even who you voted for because frankly it is sod all to do with me.

It seems at the minute that some sections of society are looking for reasons to be offended and because they don't like something it must be immediately banned. Personally, I'm not a fan off drag acts but I respect their right to perform and express themselves.

I'm not articulating myself particularly well, so apologies if it reads as offensive but guess what I'm saying is can't we live and let live and spend our time on actually educating and working towards true equality?

I don't think the problem is men wearing dresses and makeup, it's that it's done as a parody. To borrow a phrase from another thread, these men aren't expanding what it means to be a woman, they're expanding what it means to be a man, and yet that's not how it's described.

Where on earth did it mention their sexuality....?

I agree it's ridiculous for drag queens to be banned from Free Pride, if one group of people can perpetuate harmful stereotypes about a group, why do they feel they can ban another group that does exactly that same?

However, your comment wasn't about Free Pride's stance, it was about how mean feminists are, which is a frankly dull trope. The only person who seems offended by anything is you, IKnow, I have no problem with gay men dressing as men and being as camp as they like, what possible relevance does that stereotype have to the discussion?

Discussing harm isn't the same thing as taking offence. One is constructing an argument, the other is emotional.

I absolutely agree that some drag stereotypes are fucking annoying. However I don't find them... offensive, I don't think. Not the way I would find a head-dress offensive, were I from the First Nations.

I've never thought about why. But if I hazard a guess, I feel like there is a difference between the situation of the First Nations, who were almost exterminated, and whose incredibly valuable costume was then appropriated as, like, a meaningless accessory by the very people (at least visually) who nearly exterminated them. And the laughable stereotypes of rich white women being aped by a bunch of queer / gay men. Like... drag is a joke. I know it's a joke because it's nothing like me. The men doing it mostly know it's a joke too. And I have never really minded them making that joke - because I find that stereotype laughable. Does that make sense? It's when that stereotype is seen as true that it annoys me, or when it verges on laughing at all women rather than at the bullshit that surrounds the 'idea' of women that drag tends to ape.

Anyway. I wish people could get on, I really do. But actually, transwomen and men in drag's issues with one another are kind of not my business or my problem. Reckon my money's on the queens though.

But, transgender as a thing, perpetuates harmful stereotypes. It leads men to believe they need to chop their dick off just because they want to wear skirts.

It's not women in this instance doing the banning, it's trans women. Banning something that they are also doing themselves.

It's not my place to criticise how someone chooses to express their sexuality TBH.

Do you have a problem with gay men that dress as men but are extremely camp and act it up? If not, why not?

I agree with the OP that it's unreasonable for cross dressers to be banned from the Gay Pride marches, especially given that they've been a cornerstone of it for years. If you are offended by ankle length sequined gowns, huge headgear and makeup caked on, that's seriously your outlook.

I think it's great!!

Um, why do feminists specifically have to be open minded when discussing appropriation?

Do you also go onto First Nations talk boards and tell them they aren't being very open minded when they discuss how idiots wearing head dress is harmful to them culturally, because it perpetuates incorrect stereotypes of them? Or is it just women who aren't allowed to discuss how parody perpetuates harmful stereotypes?

I've never seen Drag Queens mentioned on the FWR boards before, so it's interesting to see how much bile they generate.

Some of you aren't coming across as particularly open minded.....

It has nothing to do with vaginas. If that's what you take from that then that's your issue. It is a common mistake.

That is not what it originates from.

You are very wrong there, Apocalypse is right in what she says.

Very interesting follow up post, where you tie yourself in knots trying to justify men calling women a derogatory name on the basis of something that they know precisely zip about.

I've never heard lesbians, or indeed anyone, say that men smell of balls, what an utterly ridiculous comparison to make.

This decision by free pride is just further evidence that the only people's feelings that hold any weight are trans peoples' feelings, and everyone else can go screw themselves.

Oh nice try, let's try and pretend that fish isn't an insult.

Slut isn't an insult either, it's empowerfulising.

And slapper shouldn't be construed as an insult, it just means women who sometimes slap their handbags down on the dashboard when they enter their car.

And scrubber just refers to the fact that sometimes, women scrub dishes when they wash up.

There's no misogyny anywhere, move along, nothing to see, no misogyny and no problem. So any woman who says there is, is just making a big ole fuss about nothing.

I hope that clarifies everything.

Banning everything has gotta go.

So, many things are offensive. Sometimes it's good to get offended. Sometimes things are deliberately offensive to draw attention to something else (Ie questioning gender norms).

If we all live in a pure bubble filled only with idea of our (non offensive) own, that's where Fascism lies.

Speak out and discuss. Don't ban and silence.

Oh, but are we saying drag queens are the new Gollywog? The Minstrels of gender discourse? Then if we have learned anything from that, banning it does not stop racism/sexism whatever.

ONLY discussion does.

It has nothing to do with vaginas. If that's what you take from that then that's your issue. It is a common mistake.

That is not what it originates from.

So this is where it starts getting a bit weird isn't it.

CIS drag in particular is the problem, and joking about gender.

So, the rules are: Women-born-women can dress as women, women-born-men can dress as women, but men-born-men can't (and no-one ever mentions men-born-women - but who probably no-one would mind dressing as a woman).

Nope. I reject those rules, and rules in general about what I'm allowed to wear and in who's presence (basic rules about nothing that shouldn't be hanging out excepted).

I can see that banning offensive jokes as fine, but again, I'm struck that making a joke of gender is apparently only now a problem that trans are offended by it.

Why all of a sudden are trans the special little snowflakes that nobody must annoy?

It's 'fishy' because somebody might say "there's something fishy about her... I can't put my finger on it. "(Ie: it's actually a man.)

No, it's a revolting allusion to the idea that women's vaginas smell of rotten fish.