sexualisation of children vs slut shaming

Deserved to be raped? Hmmm I don't think so. But sympathy for a man trying to read mixed messages, possibly.

what do you want me to do? Pretend these things don't happen, that these slut opinions don't exist? That men find women in sexual clothing sexy and possibly up for a bit of action? What are you planning on teaching your daughter? One minute you say I am going to raise my daughter scared of men by highlighting these unfair stereotypes and the next you are ramming home the point any man in her life right now who loves and cares for her is more likely to rape her than a stranger. Do you want me to teach her that? Do you think that won't scare her more? and then I'll put her in hot pants and crop tops, with make-up and heels and send her off to parties with boys who are using porn as a blueprint of relationships because the feminist agenda demands that women wear what they want and 2 fingers up to anyone who thinks flaunting my tits and arse is remotely sexual.

And it's not the case that the rapist 'thought the woman was up for it,' it's that in our society people see certain women as sluts who deserve to be raped.

Feminists have started to change that situation, as can be seen in the Ched Evans case.

And as previously mentioned rape cases have unfortunately not ended up with a conviction because the rapist thought the woman was up for it because of the way she was dressed and because she was drunk. It's not right but it happens.

Well surely if clothes are going to make them commit crimes then they shouldn't be allowed out?

I don't know you'll have to ask them.

Some blokes can't help themselves??? So the poor loves just assault women because they have no control over their own behaviour?

It leads to sexual attention, and some blokes can't help themselves. especially when you factor in drink. Are you saying wearing certain clothing doesn't lead to sexual attention. In my experience it does, and yes the more slutty my get up the more attention I got.

*women

So a woman's clothes lead to sexual assault?

It's not just men who think wime who dress s certain way are sluts is it! Just because a woman calls a girl a slut doesn't mean she won't get upset by it.

There is a world of difference to having your arse pinched and a guy try to stick his tongue down your throat at a party and being raped. I don't want either to happen to my sexually unaware child. Be it a man or a boy doing it,

No I think some people assume that you are on the pull. Whether you are or not. It leads to unwanted groping and sleazy come ons. Never got that shit when clubbing in sensible attire.

Some rapists target drunk women, some target sober women, some target women who are completely covered up, some target women who are showing skin.

I haven't used the term victim blaming captain. I get your point - that men think women who dress a certain way are sluts so women have to dress differently so men don't assault them.

My point is that women in all sorts of clothes get raped.

JAPAB don't even bother trying. I can't seem to get the point across either. we are victim blaming apparently.

cailindana
Nope. Just querying about drink or dress making no difference to rapists.

What do you mean, JAPAB, that the victim somehow causes a man to rape her because she's drunk?

"And I don't care if you think it's all fine and dandy cos rape statistics show what you are wearing makes no difference."

Do we know for a fact that there are no kinds of rape or rapist for whom dress or drunkeness makes no difference? I wouldn't necessarily expect such factors to make any difference to the husband/boyfriend rapist, or the man lurking in the bushes awaiting a victim rapist, but what about the opportunist at a party or club rapist say.

That's fine captain.

Calm Down dear I don't think jeans and a sweater are a rape shield. I do think you need to respect the fact that some mothers will not allow a child completely innocent of sexual wants and desires to wear clothing that is seen as sexual by a fair proportion of society. And nor do we want our children to have to be confronted with the term slut. I will wait until they are mature enough to explore the rightswrongs etc. and I'm not going to think it's ok that clothing for girls has to be right/short right from toddler age. And I don't care if you think it's all fine and dandy cos rape statistics show what you are wearing makes no difference.

I'm a feminist and my DDs are older teenagers. My observations are: primary aged, clothing was never an issue. They went to a posh prep with a unisex, very practical uniform. Very occasionally among their peers there might have been a crop top at a party, but it was irrelevant as the occasional national dress or slogan t shirt. When they went to single sex senior school, they both went through phases of heavy make up and rolling up their skirts in year 8/9. I decided I say nothing as I couldn't think of a safer environment to work out what messages that sends, wrongly or rightly, than in broad daylight with their friends. They both separately came home at different times incandescent at being chatted up or told off by teachers and now dress tbh pretty frumpily and rarely wear make up. I will occasionally remind them to take a coat and/ or comment that a certain outfit is great when with friends but not for taking the night bus home alone, but the whole concept of slut shaming and asking for it clothes has never risen.
I'm aware that not rolling up their skirts or wanting to wear crop tops etc until they were 14 is not the norm though.

Of course they do. Because men attack women no matter what they do. Men don't attack women because those women are wearing certain clothes. They attack them because they are sexual predators.

Yes thank you for stating the obvious there. Are there any parents on mumsnet not aware of this fact. But please do not think that women who are drunk/dressed in tight/short clothing don't get unwanted sexual attention either.