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Original poster

Its all one big conspiracy

297 replies

yazz21 · 04/07/2015 12:06

Its only after all the transgender threads on here recently, that I've thought about feminism, and started looking into things. The more I read, the more I learn, the more shocked I am.

Its just like one massive conspiracy that I never saw. Now my eyes have been opened to it, I can't stop seeing it. (Not that I'd want to.) I see everything around me so differently. Just little things that all add up to keeping women subordinate.I never realised how much my behaviour, thoughts and actions is not innate, but things I've learned through socialisation.

I really wish I'd seen it all earlier, but for some reason I had this notion that feminism was just men hating women who were probably hairy and/or lesbians Hmm I wonder who benefitted from me thinking that.

I'm not sure what my point is really, but I feel really angry on behalf of women and really want to do something about it. However there are no feminist groups/meetings in my area, and I'm not well read enough to start one. Any other angry womenn here? Also if anyone could reccomend some books, so I can further my understanding. I would be really grateful.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 05/07/2015 13:50

"No in the privacy of her own house in front of a mirror. Why deny her the right to think I don't like the look of that - unless she runs it through a feminist analysis?"

Nobody is denying her the right. But there is no harm in having the occasional look at our motives, surely? As somebody has said, we very rarely do anything in a vacuum.

LassUnparalleled · 05/07/2015 13:45

Yes yazz, I understand. After all, even if you made that decision yourself, you didnt do so in a vacuum

No in the privacy of her own house in front of a mirror. Why deny her the right to think I don't like the look of that - unless she runs it through a feminist analysis?

I don't think Yops comment was intended that way nor that it was specifically addressed to the OP.

Original poster
yazz21 · 05/07/2015 13:38

Yes that was another one. I was thinking, I hope I don't go into labour today before I've had a chance to tackle the area. Also everytime I went to my midwife appointments, the belly hair thing was on my mind. (Because I didn't shave/wax it). I was wondering if they were put off by it.

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 05/07/2015 13:32

"I know these examples make me sound stupidly naïve." No they don't (although I think Yops comments intended you to make you feel like that). People take things for granted all the time. Men included. Their privilege, for example.

BertrandRussell · 05/07/2015 12:42

Yes. Women worrying if their midwife will be disgusted by them having pubic hair. Sad

BeyondTheWall · 05/07/2015 12:38

Another one I'd think of is the amount of women wondering if they should have a pre-labour vaj-wax. I know i was one.

BeyondTheWall · 05/07/2015 12:36

Yes yazz, I understand. After all, even if you made that decision yourself, you didnt do so in a vacuum :)

BertrandRussell · 05/07/2015 12:35

"And that is entirely your decision. Why should you not feel like that?"

Why should she?

LassUnparalleled · 05/07/2015 12:31

And that is entirely your decision. Why should you not feel like that?

Original poster
yazz21 · 05/07/2015 12:22

Cheers for the link.

Sorry, when I mentioned shaving. I was meaning more other areas than legs. E.g when I was pregnant and got a lot of thicker hair on my belly and chest. I felt I should get rid of it. Noone was seeing the area apart from myself and dp. It didn't bother either of us physically, but I felt self conscious about it, and like I should be getting rid of it. As if it was unnatural to leave it.

OP posts:
BeyondTheWall · 05/07/2015 12:17

I've read it now, it is american :)

BeyondTheWall · 05/07/2015 12:10

Thats america though (i guess from 'mom'?), i remember reading (though god knows where) that it only started in the uk when the american GI's were over here in the war and they were used to women shaving and a bit 'ewwww' at the british women. A bit like the uk used to be about 'european' women 10 years ago?

LassUnparalleled · 05/07/2015 11:57

Shaving gets mentioned regularly. There's a thread in Chat at the moment.
I found this interesting.

www.stuffmomnevertoldyou.com/podcasts/when-did-women-start-shaving-their-legs/

Seems to have become a thing due to rising hemlines and the introduction of sheer stockings. Possibly a flapper looked at herself in her new short dress and thought "hmm those coarse black hairs are spoiling the look " and made her mind up all by herself to shave her legs. Not everything is a conspiracy, not everything is blindly fitting in.

Original poster
yazz21 · 05/07/2015 11:23

Thanks scallops that sounds really interesting.

OP posts:
Original poster
yazz21 · 05/07/2015 11:11

Sorry me not be.

OP posts:
Original poster
yazz21 · 05/07/2015 11:08

Yops not everything off the cuff no.
Things like shaving, on a bus moving up for a man, even if he was already taking up more space. I put that down to be just being polite. However if it was a woman I know I wouldn't of felt the need to move up.

I know these examples make me sound stupidly naïve. But I just didn't think/realise all the little things in my day to day life. ITMS

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 05/07/2015 10:31

OP when I first started my feminist journey one of the first books I read was Susan Faludi's Backlash. Amazing book. Incredibly detailed. And it really shows the dynamics at play in 'the conspiracy'. Basically, men will fight tooth and nail to keep their privilege.

BeyondTheWall · 05/07/2015 10:26

Umm, society, the media?

Yops · 04/07/2015 23:45

Also, a conspiracy by definition requires conspirators. Who are they?

BakingCookiesAndShit · 04/07/2015 23:44

Yops, you would be amazed at the number of people who do believe just that. Look at any thread about shaving/waxing, make up or changing names on marriage and you will find examples of women who will deny any socialisation and who become really quite nasty when challenged. Social norms and blindly fitting in with them are real flash points and some of the biggest originators for straw feminist hatred on MN.

Damascene moments are jarring like this.

Yops · 04/07/2015 23:20

I never realised how much my behaviour, thoughts and actions is not innate, but things I've learned through socialisation.

How can you live in a society and not be 'socialised'? Do people really think that their decisions are not guided by social rules and norms? The only alternatives I can see are either total isolation or being a sociopath. Did you really think you did everything off the cuff prior to your Damascene moment, Yazz?

Original poster
yazz21 · 04/07/2015 17:10

Thanks for the links Buffy. I will have a look at the blogs.

Thank you everyone for the book suggestions :)

OP posts:
BakingCookiesAndShit · 04/07/2015 16:13

The equality illusion by Kay Bayard is really good too. ( think I've spelled her name correctly!)

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 04/07/2015 16:02

Op - I had the same realisation as you about 18 months ago. Once you start seeing injustices it is difficult to stop!

alexpolistigers · 04/07/2015 15:58

Things evolve, yes, but Mumsnet is a brand name. CocaCola doesn't just sell a brown fizzy drink, it has evolved, but everyone recognises the brand name even on other products.