I don't identify as a feminist - so why does this get on my nerves?

V funny, Bertrand.

"I'm not sure why I don't like her. I think I don't like her voice, immediately, but it is more than that - I don't like her attitude.

Not sure why. She seems quite rude sometimes. And dismissive"

What do you expect- she is a feminist!!

Compare the Women's Hour list with the Forbes list. I think WH have made themselves look like a lightweight radio version of Hello and Closer with this list, rather than the serious programme they take themselves to be. It's a big disappointment as in the past they have done some good reportage on serious issues, but they really are looking a bit tabloid-esque with this one.

Link to the underwear story:

radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/02/bruce-jenner-sex-change-stole-kim-kardashian-lingerie/

Thanks TheOriginalSteamingNit - I am very interested to know how many complaints the BBC have received about this, and will be requesting that information if it is not included in their response to mine. What was the flavour of the conversation about the Power List on WH today?

Soot, Sophie and Lotta - I'm glad to share the background information about Jenner from Louise Pennington's post. I agree with you Soot about how Jenner's criminal behaviour has been conveniently ignored by the media in the hullabaloo surrounding their "transition", and also agree with Annie about the wider issues at play regarding who actually owns the press (and what their vested interests might be).

Re Sarah Vine, I've long thought that she is the worst sort of lickspittle handmaiden without really knowing much about her (beyond her being a columnist for the Daily Mail ), but thanks to Wikipedia I now know that Mr Vine is one Michael Gove. Which is interesting.

As for the Trans Trojan Horse, Miranda Yardley (a gender-critical transwoman who is often cited in these sorts of threads, and who engages with MN/FWR in person on occasion) has written about this very recently:

How to destroy feminism:

(1) convince young women to unconditionally accept men as women; and
(2) convince young lesbians they are men.

My view on the current transgender narrative is that at best it's a very nasty form of gaslighting ("some women have a penis"), and at worst it's the embodiment of rape culture (the "Cotton Ceiling").

Kim Kardashian hasn't killed anyone though, has she?

Imagine how the family of Kim Howe must feel.

If the decision was between Kim Kardashian and Caitlyn Jenner to have on the list (which is what it seems to have been, according to Sarah Vine), then I think I'd rather have Caitlyn.

When they talk about influence, just think of how many threads on transgender issues have been posted prompted by Caitlyn. Awareness has been raised. Her public outing has caused a lot of debate, and it interesting how tolerant the U.S. has been of it, because Bruce was popular.

The inclusion on the list annoyed me too. She has only been a woman for weeks yet beats every other woman on the planet

As an aside I don't think much of Jenny either. I always feel she never listens to people's answers, she just gets in with her list of questions.

From the website:
The aim of this year’s list was to identify a range of women who have an exceptionally large impact on our lives, not just because of their job title but because of their personal ability to influence others.

If we accept CJ as a woman, then there has been a huge amount of influence through the media - whether or not she did it alone, or even did much anyway.

It is sometime useful to see who is influencing things, even if in a negative fashion.

And then to be put on a list of high achieving women for what?

As a man, Bruce Jenner was an olympic gold medal winner, a racing car driver and a successful businessman. As a woman, Caitlyn Jenner's only achievement that I can see so far is to be photographed by Annie Liebowitz.

And there you have it...

Dollie, that is pretty unpleasant and nasty stuff. I had no idea about any of Bruce / Caitlyn Jenner's background other than his athletic success. Thanks for sharing

Sarah Vile is positively antipathetic to feminism - she thinks the feminist harpies should be ashamed of themselves re. Tim Hunt etc.

Chihuahuas, Bertrand. Well, somebody has to.

I've seen that Sarah Vine was on the judging panel so not entirely surprised at the provocative choice, she is not a great supporter of women, I don't find. Pays lip service to feminism whilst promoting damaging views and stereotypes.

Sounds like, the Jenner issue aside, the whole list was about being famous/high profile rather than being important in any sense at all. Being talked about does not = influential. So it's not what these women - or transwomen - have done, it's about whether the papers choose to write about them. And the papers are owned by... wait for it...

Why don,t you like Jenni?
I realise she keeps chiwahwahs or however you spell them which is pretty unforgivable...........

I don't think you can blame Jenni Murray..........

Did anyone see Alice Eve's Instagram comments about Jenner a couple of months ago, she was deeply critical of the lauding of him and addressed some of these issues. She was roundly turned on and had to delete, apologise and retract.

They're talking about the power list on WH now..

Wow.

That's me off the fence on this one- I didn't know most of that.

It does sometimes seem that trans issues are a sort of Trojan Horse being wheeled up to the gates of Feminism....

I had forgotten about the death by dangerous driving - shows how 'powerful' the media hype is, a very well-timed distancing from 'Bruce'.

I didn't know that about the underwear stealing either. It is all a bit disturbing and depressing for women.

Thanks for posting that.