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Original poster

I don't identify as a feminist - so why does this get on my nerves?

232 replies

SophieJenkins · 02/07/2015 07:05

I was listening in the car to WH yesterday and they were doing their 'power list', first off discussing Kim Kardashian (have a vague idea who she is but not much) and then they started off the list and after about 1 or 2 interesting women, they announced Caitlyn Jenner.

I turned it off instantly as I couldn't listen. I don't know why but it just made me really angry.

I didn't want to start another thread about this as I realise from titles that people were getting sick of them, but cant get it out of my head and wondered if anyone could briefly help me figure out why it pissed me off SO much?

If we're not allowed to discuss this then I apologise and feel free to tell me. I haven't been reading any of the other threads about it which perhaps I should have done after all.

I think I feel like being female has been hijacked by someone and used to get publicity - when a lot of women are denied even the basic human rights that come with being a bloke.

And then to be put on a list of high achieving women for what? For wanting to be a woman?

I don't get it.

OP posts:
AvocadoLime · 02/07/2015 07:44

"And then to be put on a list of high achieving women for what? For wanting to be a woman?"

I think that when a group of high achieving women is listed, it is done so because they have achieved success despite the statistical odds being stacked against them, which is undeniable feminist or not. Caitlyn Jenner achieved success through being a privileged white male (male only football scholarship to college, for example) - that is why it would irritate me.

Disclaimer - I am not saying that life for transwomen on the whole is a cakewalk.

Original poster
SophieJenkins · 02/07/2015 07:25

Thank you...I have never considered the difference between gender and sex tbh. I have no problem with people being gay, but I hesitate to define being female or male as anything other than anatomy as I think these things are really fluid in any case.

Changing your anatomy by surgery is something I have no experience of (or know anyone with experience of) which makes me very ignorant.

OP posts:
VashtaNerada · 02/07/2015 07:17

Sounds like you're a closet feminist to me Wink (all it means is expecting women and men to have equal opportunities in life, no more no less).
When it comes to CJ your reaction probably means that you consider someone's gender and sex to be the same thing (& therefore she doesn't count as a 'real' woman). I personally don't mind accepting transwomen as women, but I suspect that your reaction is caused by that.

oddfodd · 02/07/2015 07:17

It annoyed me too. And not simply because a she's a transwoman. The reason she's been so feted is because she fits the conventional mode of female attractiveness because she's had extensive plastic surgery. I don't think that's something to celebrate.

Original poster
SophieJenkins · 02/07/2015 07:15

Thanks, I think you are spot on. But also I don't see him/her as a woman anyway, which may be wrong of me. I can't. Achievements already made as a man cannot count towards this can they? Because they were made as a man, within the context that provides.

I don't consider coming out like that to be a massive achievement, lots of people have to do it, and get no reward.

I think hearing all the cheers when she announced it made me think 'FGS it's meant to be WH and they are worshipping someone who is only really famous for being male and wanting to be female'.

Maybe I am seriously out of line. It was a gut reaction.

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 02/07/2015 07:11

Ps it's ok to be annoyed by stuff like this and not be a feminist! I'm not much if an environmentalist, still annoys me when businesses leave lights on all night!

YonicScrewdriver · 02/07/2015 07:10

Sophie, I think it feels "off" because Caitlyn Jenner hasn't done much as herself other than be on a vogue cover, whereas the others on the list, IIRC, had tangible achievements in business, charity, politics, sport etc.