Being silenced/feeling voiceless

cis means that your sex matches the way you are perceived

that would make a lot of trans people cis though… even those who feel that "pass" 99% of the time.

I found this blog from a transactivist (self-proclaimed), who is the Woman's Officer for the NUS. In this account she is doing something nice and caring and looking out for a woman she thought was vulnerable:

"I wandered into the ladies’ to check if a somewhat inebriated woman (who’d been in there for a while) was okay. It turned out she was fine and just about to leave, but she gave me a funny look as I walked in. “This isn’t the men’s, is it?”

I don’t think there’s a single trans woman who hasn’t had this experience, or something very similar. Many have to endure being misgendered every day. I’m very lucky these days: I suspect that I “pass” as a cis woman around 99% of the time. Still, that doesn’t mean I’m always gendered correctly: now and again, there are always those who mistake me for a man.

Those who misgender me are usually either drunk adults, or children. Some might think that sober adults are more likely to figure I’m trans and gender me correctly out of politeness, but I’m not convinced this entirely accounts for it. I’ve been misgendered a number of times in front of people who don’t know I’m trans, and they always greet such incidences with incomprehension and amusement. How could anyone be so stupid as to think I’m a man, they wonder? After all, I’m obviously a woman"

This woman was undoubtedly being a nice and considerate person in her actions. But she doesn't make any reference to how a different drunk woman might have felt in that situation. I personally don't mind transwomen coming into female loos and changing rooms (and, like many other women, I have been sexually assaulted more than once), but I can see the arguments from women on here about why they feel very uncomfortable with it.

I am obviously female, am treated as female, have all the bullshit that comes from being perceived as female, have been socialised and oppressed as a female, would be described as female by someone who saw me walking in the street etc.

All that applies to a 'passing' transwoman, too, except the socialisation & oppression - which she might say she did suffer, due to her dysphoria. And doesn't obviously impact on being perceived as female anyway.

So it's a rubbish definition!

I read something the other day, I think in the guardian, saying that being cis means that your sex matches the way you are perceived. So I am clearly cis because I am obviously female, am treated as female, have all the bullshit that comes from being perceived as female, have been socialised and oppressed as a female, would be described as female by someone who saw me walking in the street etc.

I can actually accept this as a definition of cis and am happy for it to be applied to me. On the other hand the idea of identifying as a gender and having the label of cis forced on to me I find deeply offensive.

And I can just imagine how welcome I'd be at a trans* conference where I stood up and introduced myself as a transwoman who was assigned female at birth

I don't agree with gender full-stop.

This doesn't make me transgender.

A transgender person is someone who doesn’t agree/identify with the gender they were assigned at birth.

Then I'm transgender?! Along with the millions - nay, billions - of people who dislike being shoved into social & behavioural boxes due to their gender.

I am really fucking resenting this instruction to re-label myself because of a 'feeling' OTHER PEOPLE SAY I HAVE but haven't

I wanted to know how a transgender person would explain the homosexual/heterosexual thing and found this:

There are girls with all sorts of genitals, just as boys and non-binary people do. Having sex with a girl if you're a girl will not necessarily ensure that you won't get pregnant. To imply that being homosexual will mean that you will never encounter a partner that could potentially make you pregnant or that you could make them pregnant is cissexist. A better way this conversation could have gone would be "I'm a lesbian and my girlfriend's cis." Or anything that doesn't equate gender to having a certain kind of genital

On the same blog I found this

Q do you have to have dysphoria to be trans?

A No, you don’t need dysphoria to be trans.

A transgender person is someone who doesn’t agree/identify with the gender they were assigned at birth.

A cisgender person is someone who agrees/identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth.

All you need to do in order to be trans is to not identify with the gender you were assigned.There are trans people without dysphoria of any kind

I honestly don't understand

It's a massive can o' worms, Jessica - still the same issue of whether gender is a biological thing or not.

I have no gender identity that I'm aware of - or, more likely, a fairly weak one - but have a definite sexual identity. My body responds to (some) biologically male bodies in a way it simply does not to (any) female ones.
If I were lesbian my life would be simpler in some ways, but I've tried it and I'm not.

Many women have told me very strongly that sexuality is a choice, at least for women. Even though my perceptions of sexuality and gender are sliding scales, I can't relate to their argument. I can only suppose their sexual identity's a lot weaker or more flexible than mine. Their gender identity might be stronger & more definite, I don't know.

I wish we would do the fuck away with all concepts of gender (not sex). If we refuse to forget it altogether - how soon can we expand it from a binary to something far more varied and optional?

See, that doesn't make any sense to me. When I'm attracted to someone, it's physical. I like something about their body. I might also really like their personality, their values, share their interests, but that's separate (to me at least) from their sexual attractiveness. I thought that sexual orientation was about being attracted a person of the same or opposite biological sex (or both).

so are we supposed to be doing away with terms such as heterosexual and homosexual in the context of being only attracted to one sex or the other?

ah.. ok… a lesbian would be equally attracted to a male-bodied person who identified as a woman...

she was attracted to the physical bodies of women born women - so she wasn't a lesbian, because that would mean being attracted to women as a gender

I've read this sentence a few times and, um, I genuinely don't understand. I'm not even saying I don't agree… I just don't understand what this person is saying! Sorry for being dense… can please someone explain?

Garlick, that must have been really unsettling.

• Suddenly feeling I should add - I didn't trick, force or sneak my way into said gatherings of gay men or black people. I'd paid at the door and was behaving appropriately. It was pure prejudice.

Thank you, Jeanne :)

I'm still catching up, and will probably have to leave it until tomorrow. This is a small burble prompted by your early posts about 'cis'.

The last time I went clubbing with my gay (ex) best friend, the DJ put on something that every single person wants to dance to and then yelled out "No hetties on the dance floor!" I thought I'd misheard but, not only did he repeat it; several other dancers came up to tactfully tell me to sit the hell down. In the end I compromised by doing my thing off the main floor, but that's not the story.

My friend really didn't get why I was so massively outraged. No DJ would ever shout "No poofs on the dance floor" would they? If one were that stupid, the other clubbers would be having a go at the DJ not the dancing poof, wouldn't they?

But I was the straight, female woman in a roomful of gay men. I am part of the majority which oppresses gay men. Therefore it's alright to ostentatiously exclude me and to enforce that exclusion. Because ... well, minorities and oppression.

This is like the way I feel about 'cis'. I've felt similarly when being subjected to racial violence by groups black people, but actually this felt worse. I don't know whether that's purely due to the environment or differing levels of cultural guilt - maybe both.

If other people perceive me (even rightly) as more privileged than them, this doesn't give them carte blanche to re-name me as Hetty, Betty, Milky, Whitey or Cis. It doesn't relieve them of their civil obligations to treat all other humans with basic respect.

"Boys who are seen as 'less' than male, ie- a bit 'female', are subjected to misogynist bullying - sissy, pussy, girlie... etc. "

Well put.

rudely marking to read later

Yes, that is tragic...gay marriage is now legal in all of the US. But lesbians feel like they can't be lesbians because of "progressive" ideas about gender...

"I saw someone in the comments explaining she was attracted to the physical bodies of women born women - so she wasn't a lesbian"

That is so tragic :(

btw - I know men get raped too, but they won't get pregnant from it

"But, then ... do people who have a gender identity think this isn't the problem? Do they think it's really different for us? Is it really different for us?"

There are some people who have sex-dysphoria or identify as transgendered who respect the reality of the systematic oppression of born-females, but they are a drop in the ocean among those and their allies who insist everyone denounces evidence and logic or be labelled a transphobe.

The system is patriarchy - male dominance (including other oppressive hierarchies, such as 'race'). Misogyny is necessary for maintaining patriarchy. Boys who are seen as 'less' than male, ie- a bit 'female', are subjected to misogynist bullying - sissy, pussy, girlie... etc. The masculine gender is about embodying stereotypes of dominance and entitlement, the feminine gender is about embodying placatory and subservient stereotypes.

And it is really different for us women, because issues like rape, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, denial of abortion - really have a huge impact on women's lives and autonomy and have been key to the sex-based oppression of females. Those who are born males never have and never will face those issues. However they will be socially punished for not being dominant, which can of course be deadly. But women's situation is a bit different since we are more likely to be killed by a current or former male partner.