Being silenced/feeling voiceless

Egosumquisum, are you the poster who started a thread about not posting on trans threads anymore?

Beachcomber - I liked your posts.

So, yes, trans women are a sub set of men. Not a sub species. That's inflammatory.

Women are not "not men".

Actually Egosumquisum, I was using 'men' as shorthand for 'male supremacist society'.

And your post highlights perfectly what so much of this is about.

A woman who voices her thoughts about her state of being within male supremacist society = transphobic. A pariah, someone to distance oneself from, someone not to be listened to.

You know when women talk about ourselves within male supremacist society, sometimes we are just talking about ourselves within male supremacist society. It isn't always about trans.

And, fuck, I got sucked into the ego show again. That was not what the op was about.

That took me a while to write.

Wot Beach said.

Err, yes. It's not just about being treated as, it's about being, experiencing, living.

Fear/hope of pregnancy, for example. Even if you subsequently find out you can't have kids, the thought is always there. And then the decisions needed upon conception. Periods ; either a pain in the ass because you have them, or a concern that you don't. And, in terms of what's going on right now in terms of women's rights. Pressure on abortion rights. Masses more that escape me right now. I don't expect trans women to get why it's important. I do expect that they don't try and stifle discussion.

It's not about perception, it's about reality.

I know you don't quite get it and I know you wish you did. I don't know what to say to that.

I'm having an early night. Glad to go to bed on that post

Setting a random age range for posters on this thread, we have all spent 20-60 years thinking that we are girls, then women, because of our biology; we were taught about menstruation and pregnancy in school; we all shared a changing room and a netball court and showers. We were told to "quiet down, girls". We got notifications in our late teens about smear tests. We were taught how to check for breast lumps and about the risk of toxic shock. We wondered what choice we might make if we did get pregnant.

For our whole lives, our female biology has defined us and led to our self description as girls and then women. Whether that was right or wrong, it happened and was part of our cultural structure.

Our biology and our worldview are intertwined.

I wasn't 'perceived' as female when I was born.

I was born female.

Female is a state of being FFS not a perception.

This is why 'cis' is a creepy silencing abusive term. Because it reduces my state of being to a perception. A subjective perception that anyone can adopt. The disrespect and trampling all over female state of being is just another form of violence against women. I am not a perception, I am not an assignation, I am not a feeling, I am not 'not a man', I am not an object to be fetishized or worn or bought. I am a human being and I am so done with men thinking that they have the right to define me and tell me what I am.

Fuck that.

No, I agree with all that.

I shouldn't bite, but...

It's not about body appearance! Why are you obsessed with this? It's about bodily reality. You're all over that when it's about the male body that you hate. Why can you not see that women's bodies are a reality too?

You should ask on here. They're all experts on trans people on here and understand the issues about trans people and why they undergo such procedures

Why answer with such a sarcastic comment after telling me I'm wrong for looking at accounts/diaries/blogs/various definitions from transgender people themselves?

Why don't you want to help? I'm trying to understand. It is baffling to be honest, not least because I cannot find consistent ideas, interpretations and definitions from transgender people online. And as has been pointed out, on a thread entitled "being silenced/feeling voiceless", I'm pretty much being told to STFU and find the information you think I should have - because the information I'm finding is not good enough - without giving me any help in finding it

There's nothing to dispute in your reply, Ego. Neither is there anything relevant to your other points.

Do you understand the difference between biological sex and gender?

I don't have a word or set of words that makes everything all right, Ego, unless it's person/people.

I do know that the root of female oppression throughout history is that females are the childbearing sex and that, even now, the global treatment of females and males now remains related to the biology of their bodies.

A cis girl and a trans boy are both at risk of FGM if they are in such a culture; a cis woman and a trans man are both at risk of unplanned pregnancy; a cis woman and a trans man both have a higher risk of osteoporosis when old (and vice versa for circumcision, unplanned impregnation and prostate cancer).

Which are the words that groups these people by biology and biology's impact on their lives?