Today my 9 year old has been taught that as she grows older, hair will grow on her vagina!

In Glasgow all children at state schools except some of the Catholic schools are taught the correct terms in a matter of fact way from P1: when doing parts of the body, they're labelled "head", "foot", "arm", "hand", "foot", "penis", "vulva"......

It's funny seeing them labelled in comic san serif. Teachers said it was embarrassing at first and then they realised that the embarrassment came from their own reaction. It's part of an integrated Sexual Health and Relationships Education programme that is laid out 3-16.

I like vagine - said with a french accent.

Why do we have to have a universal word for female parts? To me, that's the joy of language - and unless you're living under a rock, most people will know what a foof/fanny/quim/front bottom/ninny/etc etc etc is - or if they really have no clue then they could use their common sense and work it out from the context. A willy is a willy because it is one visual thing - our bits (plural)are more involved and hidden. It's just one of those things (shrug)

I was thinking Eastern European, pre Berlin Wall coming down..may I present the FSO Scrotum de luxe..the Skoda Vulva estate ....

Nah. 'vulva' sounds too much like a boxy scandinavian car, but 'vagina' is quite a pretty word - like a flower name.

Wow, Branleuse. That's a very strong opinion.

vulva doesnt sound too bad, but vagina is horrible. Horrible, in the same way that gusset, clusters, pregnant and moist are disgusting words.

Yops, that's interesting. To me, willy is a near universal word for boy genitals but fanny is far from the same for girls - even if not offensive, it's not universal. Is it the main word in your area?

Yonic, you asked me what word was equivalent to 'willy'. Where I am from it's fanny. It's isn't offensive or controversial. But I accept it might not be the same for everyone everywhere. A bit like willy.

Sirchenjin made a good point - as an academic argument I can see why people might want to discuss it. But in reality, I don't think there is shame over children's bodies. It (same, uncleanliness) might apply to adult women in the context of menstruation, but why would there be a problem with describing a child's body where this does not apply?

And Basil, can you stop with the sarcasm, or at least try to make it funny?

No Bran, I get where you're coming from, I really do, but the language used is really not that straightforward. Even when it is, if the case actually makes it to court, all the defence brief has to do is show that the child doesn't know exactly which part of their body their abuser has touched, because they have been using euphemisms, if that makes sense? I'm not suggesting that small children wander about discussing their anatomy with random people using the correct terminology, just that they are armed with the info should they need it IYSWIM?

YY norah it's because the words aren't used, and they aren't used because people are squeamish.

It doesn't really matter what the word/s are - just as long as everyone uses them and they are "friendly" and normal to use. I think.

I don't think anyone is saying that anything is a "rubbish" name. That's really harsh.

People will give the children the words that they deem appropriate according to their own upbringings, locality and society, and that is of course perfectly normal. I'd never say any of it was "rubbish". I would like for things to change though, so that there were commonly used and understood words for the more obvious bits of girls genitals, as there are for boys, so that stuff like happened in the OP wouldn't happen.

For some of the children in that class, it's more than possible vagina means vagina, and they will now think it's going to get hairy. That's not good, is it.

Vulva sounds grim partly because we aren't used to using it.

Penis isn't fun or quaint but we just use it anyway.

If you say it enough it sounds ok, the French for it is vulv, I think according to google. You could get used to it I think.

Vulva sounds grim therefore I refuse to use it.

I'm not afraid to talk about my foof/minge/cunt/fanny/bits/ladygarden/whatever. I just don't want to call it a vulva, and won't raise DD to call it a vulva either.

saying that flower is a rubbish and vague name for genitals, is one thing, but if a child said so and so keeps touching my fanny, then i dont think thats ambiguous at all, unless youre talking about a british child using it to an american police officer with no knowledge of local language ofc

I called it fanny for my DD, but my mil (who is in a different region) was appalled - for her it was almost like cunt. She was unable to provide an alternative, and didn't see the necessity for any word(s) to use.

When I was little, I learned that the difference between boys and girls is that boys have willies. That was it.

So neither my parents nor DPs parents had a word at all - no flowers or fairies or fannies or anything. It may not be the biggest issue in the world, but ime there's definitely a real gender disparity there.

Yy Tei

Branleuse, I think it's less about you being able to work it out and more about the risk that things could be more easily downplayed in court. Also, "willies" are spoken about relatively freely; a little girl listening to a group of parents discussing, say, changing nappies on girls would I think hear a big variety of terms and more hesitation in using them, which might in turn make it a little bit harder to talk about her own genitals.

Yeah really no though.

If a child came running in and said "so and so wanted to look at my flower" and then ran off again I would assume it was something to do with flowers.

I really don't think the whole "well with context you'll be able to guess" is a good reason for not having a pretty much universal word for girls as there is for boys.

Similarly if a child said "so and so touched my vagina" it would conjure up a very different image to me, to what might be something completely unremarkable eg another child hitting them in the groin when running past or something.

Like I say though, if people think it's fine for there to be tons of different euphamisms for girls and so forth that's fine, but I don't really understand the argument against those who don't think it's fine. Is it to get people to say oh yes you're right girls should be taught the bit they grow hair on at puberty is their vagina and it's OK for any old word to be used to refer to it as people will be able to guess from context (even though actually maybe they won't if the context isn't there?).

The point is people on the thread are being silly, is that it, and evreything's fine?

if a child has been abused and talked to me, and used the word twinkle, or mimsy or fanny or foofoo, im pretty sure I could work out what they were going on about, even if they didnt know the exact anatomical term, and that would be the least of their bloody troubles.

Seriously, it isnt hard to work out colloquial terms really

People are out there doing lots of stuff that harms or insults women, and feminists are the the ones who say it's anything but a fine situation! Having non-traumatic comprehensible words to describe women's genitals seems like a worthy feminist goal. It would be normalizing the female body, in a way that we accept the existence of the male body (the way some men use it might be something else again).

Oh Whirlpool, you seem to think women can just be allowed to have conversations without testicles of objectivity-owners monitoring and advising them of the validity - or otherwise - of those conversations.

Silly!

Yops, what word do you think is the female equivalent to willy that is (a) unambiguous and (b) could be used by a 6 year old girl about herself without anyone raising an eyebrow?

So, I mean, if people think it's OK that girls get foof and twinkle and nonny and all the rest of it which will not be understood by some/many people if they need to talk about something (unless there is obvious context) then that's fine.

And if people think that it's OK for little girls to be taught that the part of the body that hair grows on at puberty is their vagina, then that's fine too.

But I don't understand why anyone would seek to say that people who think it's not fine, shouldn't talk about it, and are being silly and over-reacting or whatever the gist here is.

In the everyday sense that boys have words that are commonly known and used and everyone understands them, and girls don't.

The fact that little girls are taught to say "fairy" or "flower" is a bit weird isn't it? Why would anyone do that? I mean, I know they do it because they think it's the right thing to do, and as a parent everyone does their best and so forth so I'm not having a go at people who do that at all. But more, in society, why do we teach girls names for their parts which are so euphamistic that there is a good chance that without hefty context many other people would literally not know what they were talking about.

I mean if people think it's fine then that's OK. But let's not pretend that there is an equivalent of willy (universally used and known, "friendly") for girls because there isn't and why that might be, well, clearly different people have different ideas. You never get a thread on MN with an OP saying "what should I call my son's penis" and all the responses being completely different and with arguments breaking out about which of the man many suggestions are OK and which are not.

Where is that 'sense' that it's shameful? Where - in practical everyday, rather than in academic (and perhaps religious) terms - is that sense, to the extent that the words for female genitalia, as opposed to those for male genitalia, are used to such a way as to infer shame? 'Cos I just don't see it - apart from on these types of threads.

*thinking that it (the correct naming of the vulva vs vagina) doesn't matter