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Original poster

"What makes a women" NY Times article

215 replies

iisme · 08/06/2015 10:30

Nothing very new here but it expresses most of my feelings around the trans debates very clearly and well. I want to put it on Facebook but I know it will kick off a shit-storm and I'm not sure I have the strength ...

mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html?referrer=&_r=0

OP posts:
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YonicScrewdriver · 08/06/2015 18:03

Well written

Original poster
iisme · 08/06/2015 17:44

Encouragingly, two of my Facebook friends have liked this article (not posted personally by me ...) and all the comments attached to that Facebook share are positive and pro-feminist. No sign of any TERF accusations yet, which is not my experience with previous articles expressing similar sentiments (like the time I had to get into a passionate Facebook debate about how accusing a women of "thinking like a rapist" for writing a heartfelt description of her own rape was, like, maybe not that cool ...)

So maybe awareness is growing that thinking about and discussing these issues, and being concerned about their implications for women, is not just knee-jerk transphobia. I hope so!

OP posts:
FreckledLeopard · 08/06/2015 17:34

Excellent article.

CollatalieSisters · 08/06/2015 17:34

Agree. This is an excellent piece. Thank you for the link, OP.

HermioneWeasley · 08/06/2015 17:28

Agree, good to see so many women reaching their "peak trans" moment and starting to question the dogma

0x530x610x750x630x79 · 08/06/2015 17:27

I think I am getting less pro trans-person rights, they shouldn't be fighting for the right to change their gender and be accepted as females, they should be fighting for the right for their gender not to affect who they are and how they are treated.

Fighting for the right for men to wear nail varnish and dresses if they want to, or whatever else they think is wrong.

almondcakes · 08/06/2015 17:14

I think the tide is turning on this issue. Most of the comments, and the up voting of those comments, is in support of the writer.

uglyswan · 08/06/2015 17:09

Well, that's a tad depressing. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite pro trans rights in general. In my admittedly rather naive and over-optimistic worldview, the freedom to define your own gender, regardless of social norms and biological factors is primarily a good thing. Sometimes I hope that the power to redefine gender as fluid and self-attributable, to detach it from biological factors will contribute to undermining the rationalisation for the subjugation of women as a class. I'm willing to reexamine my own use of language as a tool for the reinforcement of the gender binary and the exclusion of people who do not conform to conventional definitions of gender (although you can fuck right off with "front hole"). But then people like Jenner rock up, babbling about nail varnish and female brains, and I feel that, somewhere along the line, I seem to have backed the wrong horse.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 08/06/2015 16:51

I really like this article, it articulates pretty much exactly how I feel about the whole thing. It has to be some of the clearest writing on the subject thus far.

LeBearPolar · 08/06/2015 16:49

A very interesting article.

I found it exhausting just reading about the linguistic dance that now has to be done every time we open our mouths to discuss this and so many other subjects.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 08/06/2015 16:14

That's a wonderful article.

I find it very telling that (the then) Bruce Jenner most looked forward to wearing nail varnish when he became a woman. Of all things. And that this desire didn't make him question gender norms, but instead made him think he had to become a woman. It just feels archaic.

I enjoy mechanics and mountain biking - if anyone questioned me doing them as a woman I'd tell them to fuck off, not think I had to grow a penis to do what I like.

Modwolvesrock · 08/06/2015 13:46

This article sums up my thoughts on the trans issues. Very interesting reading.

Mumsnet has been a real eye opener for me -reading between the lines a lot more these days!

geekaMaxima · 08/06/2015 13:27

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.

NomiMalone · 08/06/2015 11:21

Great article.

Sent it to DP who has seemed a bit shocked by my stance on trans feminism. He wants to understand it more fully and I think this article will help.

I want to share it on FB too but I know it would cause a ruckus.

LondonZoo · 08/06/2015 11:17

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