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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Sports and sex segregation

142 replies

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 17:15

The Roland Garros and the women's football WC this week reminded me again what I hate about sports : sex segregation. It simply reinforces the idea that men's sports are the real deal, while women's sports are a second-class. What we need to do it stop segregating boys and girls at young ages, just let them play in the same teams or events as they do before the teenage years. This way society won't see women as ''physically inferior'' and a sort of sub-par version of men. No team should be called the male or female this or that and not allowing the other sex to join, if good enough, should be illegal. Something similar happened in the US around the middle of the last century : black athletes were not allowed to compete against whites not only because of pure racism, but also because blacks were considered inferior athletes. The moment they were allowed to compete against whites was the moment they started taking over US sports and these days they almost completely dominate the most popular sports across the pond.

Women are not inferior, sub-par or a lesser version of men. They shouldn't be forced to compete in their own leagues and events. Sports are a huge part of our society and great for building confidence and teaching structure to young people. What kind of message do girls get so early in life when they are told that they should go play in a league of their own because boys are better? No wonder women grow up believing they can't go for a STEM degree or negotiate their salary ''like a man''!

OP posts:

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 20:27

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sanfairyanne · 07/06/2015 20:27

football has extended the age that girls and boys can play together and i agree with them. in fact at primary, girls can have a physical advantage over boys. so mixed sex competitive sport up til puberty sounds fine. after that, weight/height/sex segregation is useful to even out the playing field, depending on the sport.

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 20:27

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thedancingbear · 07/06/2015 20:26

Eh? How many snooker players from rural Senegal do you see? Or are they just shit at snooker?

Do you think black people all have the same attributes, then? How's their dancing?

Finally, just out of curiosity, what's your greatest sporting achievement?

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 20:23

"Do you see the issue? That doesn't represent equality. The team will end up being male dominated by default."

Unless it is a "mandated" mix eg at least 5 female players.

Original poster

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 20:20

I don't know if height is an issue but the snooker players I've seen don't seem that tall. I'm sure there is a cultural factor and the ratio is not good but I don't feel like that's all there is to it. Take black and mixed race football players for example : any european country that has a black population, even a few %, will have a huge overrepresentation of black players even though far more white boys grow up dreaming to be footballers and join junior teams . England is only 4% or so black or mixed but if you look at the top teams or the national team their % is 5-10 times than that of their general population %. Many of the top athletes from poor countries grew up playing with balls made of fuck knows what on a ''pitch'' that was basically dirt with a couple of rocks as posts while their white counterparts had the best training and facilities money could buy. Talent finds a way.

OP posts:

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 20:12

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thedancingbear · 07/06/2015 20:06

Fair enough blackrider, I think on balance I actually agree, and as I suggested upthread, there was an element of devil's advocate about my posting (which I hope you appreciate is different from trolling) - I think it's an interesting question.

To come back to the cricket point however, the opening batsmen, wickie and spinners represent four or five out of eleven positions on the pitch, so it's hardly niche positions. There are many men who the 'athlete' slots wouldn't be available to - for example I'm way to short and bottom heavy ever to be even a moderate fast bowler.

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:50

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thedancingbear · 07/06/2015 19:44

blackrider that's absolutely my point. it's a cultural, not a physical or technical thing. Pool and snooker halls are horrible places.

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:43

Do you think there were as many parents 10 years ago encouraging their teen daughters to pick up a snooker cue as there were doing so for their teen sons?

Do you think said teen daughters could easily play with a few equally interested friends and learn they had a knack for it?

And that they could as easily find support, a local business to sponsor them, a trainer? Local competitions where other players took them seriously and were pleased to see new talent emerging?

And you can substitute "darts" into all of the above too.

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:41

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thedancingbear · 07/06/2015 19:40

It's surely cultural Ennuid. To be great, or even very good, at a sport - at least one with a technical aspect - you need start really early and obsessively spend hours and hours and hours practicing, whether that be potting balls in your local club or kicking a ball against a wall. Pop down to your local snooker hall now and see how many girls are playing.

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:39

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WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:39

I wouldn't call Reanne's results "very poor"

Also there have been many reasons put forward why women are not competing at the same level as men in things like snooker, darts, are you going to consider those, address them at all?

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:38

Do you think it's an advantage to be taller in snooker, given the length of the table?

Original poster

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 19:36

Yonic, women can compete with men in snooker and a couple have but with very poor results. Nobody is stopping them from entering the main competitions, the same with chess, darts etc. I just can't understand why men still dominate sports or games like snooker when nothing physical in involved.

OP posts:

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:35

I mean separate but they run teh same distance in both the sprint and the "egg" and spoon

Shit example for the children.

thedancingbear · 07/06/2015 19:35

blackrider I don't think she's articulated her point very clearly or elegantly but I don't think there's anything that strongly suggests she's on a wind-up. I don't get it, troll hunting is considered not cool on most forums but seems pretty de rigeur here.

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:34

Well, physically, many women do have problems running post birth. Is it 1 in 3 who have pelvic floor issues?

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:34

Yeah there's no need for that is there.

Our school the mums and dads races are separate (and HIGHLY competitive lol)

TapDancingPimp · 07/06/2015 19:33

Excuse the slight tangent-offing but would like others' thoughts on the following as it falls under same category;

DD's sports day last weekend. 'Mums' race' consisted of a 40m sprint with a bean bag on head, 'Dads' race' was a full 400m.

Prior to this however the P1 children had a full 400m sprint, boys and girls competing together (for the record two boys came first and second, girl came third).

I'm not sure what the point of my post is really - I applaud them (the school) for the joint P1 sprint but why the difference in parent races? Can't women sprint long distance? I assume they've had complaints from the mums in the past

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:32

Bear, we had a very similar thread a few months ago, which is the source of much of the scepticism, along with OP's other posts today.

I do agree with you that if there was more cross over then sportswomen would benefit.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:32

and a different tournament GO REANNE!

Look at the difference in prize money (see near the start of the article) for a reason the women are not in evidence:

"Now Evans is guaranteed the biggest cheque of her career.
She collected just £400 for winning the ladies' world title last month, but will collect a minimum of £3,000 just for appearing in the first round of the season's first ranking tournament, demonstrating the gulf in rewards between the men's and women's games."

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