Germaine Greer doesn't agree with David Furnish being named as 'mother' on birth certificate

Well he's a male parent aka a father or dad.

If there was no other option on the bit of paper then that's a problem with the bit of paper, that there was nowhere else to put both of them.

If they chose this above father 1 father 2 or something then, like I say, I don't really like that but it's not sorted out in my head yet why that is.

He us not a mother. He's a parent.

If he was suddenly at the barricades for maternity provision, I'd be a bit less skeptical

The thing is that motherhood confers not just a particular relationship but actually some significant social disadvantages. Fathers for example are not judged a bad bet for promotion at work. Motherhood means real disadvantages AS well as lots of lovely stuff, but David really is only taking on the lovely stuff. So yeah, I feel that those things you can ONLY give up, as a mother, like your equality with your colleagues in the eyes of society and more meaningfully, your HR director and boss, are made invisible by this very rich man's appropriation of something which defines me, whether I like it or not. And he could just opt out, by deciding 'dad' will do. Without any problem or comeback, or loss of relationship, status or family. It feels like he's playing a game with something really important to me

Two of the main reasons why the mother is always named on the birth certificate and the father is optional is for two important human rights reasons, according to the UN:

Right to a nationality: by making the father optional, children of single mothers are able to be registered, something which they have frequently been denied and in some locations still are.

Freedom from trafficking and slavery: the birth mother being on the original certificate helps prevent the trafficking of children and the slavery of pregnant women.

Changing any of this based on people's feelings about roles seems dubious in comparison, and I don't think is happening in the UK.

It does feel very retrograde in terms of nuclear families and heteronormative roles.

Does anyone know if this story is even true?

So no prescribed gender roles I guess which is a great plan, each according to their strengths is better to my mind in everything. (And compromise on the rest!).

Orlando, why is ideal for a mother and father to do the same as two father

I meant that there should be no difference in the role of a mother or father. If someone described in words what they do as a parent, it should not be possible to say if they were a mother or father. Unless they said they woke up to BF at 2am of course.

Orlando, why is ideal for a mother and father to do the same as two father Said? I don't know what that means.

Aside from that, I don't see what the point is of a men being described as a mother or a woman as a father on a birth certificate. The word parent seems fine.

I think if any of this has happened, it is in another country. It doesn't sound anything like what happens in the UK.

It's an interesting one this.

I think maybe parent 1 / parent 2 etc may be the way forward and with a second part as others have posted for information for the child only.

I agree that mothers / fathers don't need to be the bio parent in order to fulfil that role, so really all that is left is either the stereotypical roles of mother / father, and/or the sex of the parent.

So eg my DH is a bloke but he's more stereotypically maternal than me. That doesn't mean that I'm the father and he's the mother and society would think us odd if we had got our children to describe us that way.

So it's down to sex, then. Men are fathers and women are mothers and they fulfil the role however because obviously gender roles = bad...?

My gut feel is that both men are fathers and I feel uncomfortable with a man being legally the mother. But I'm not sure why. All the laws and so forth deal directly with pregnancy / giving birth and so forth so no issue there I imagine.

I suppose maybe it just feels like a lot of "female" roles are being occupied my men at the moment? And with things the way they are the women who used to do them get pushed out. Like there was some big ceremony we were watching last year and there was a song about how everyone could be free and do whatever they felt and wasn't it great and this was accompanied by young women in skimpy clothes + men in pretty frocks / skimpy clothes. And I thought, well they haven't got a contingent of women in there expressing their liberation by not adhering to the beauty standard. Or, being over 40 or something.

Dunno. It's not an entire thought but it's just in a society which thinks men are better, then to have them colonising the only areas we were deemed to be any good for feels like a bit of a loss. And maybe a bit of a worry. So it's like, well if women won't play ball (adhering to ornamental status, being satisfied in a traditional mummy role) then we can ditch them and just get men to do it instead.

An egg is just a blank canvas.

I'm still wondering what this means.

Surely recent law changes are showing that areas such as birth certificates need updating to accommodate the points people have raised

And wedding certificates - do they still have husband / wife on them?

Life has changed. Some people said that same sex marriage makes the word marriage meaningless now.

You are still their mother. But other people who have not given birth to the child can also be their mother.

I think the certificate is out of date. If it's a baby born to 2 men - the biological father is the biological father. But both men are fathers. Or both men are parents - and do the job of a parent - ideally a father and mother should do the same role. Except where biologically difficult.

No I haven't. I took the post at face value that a man was described as a child's mother.

Surely recent law changes are showing that areas such as birth certificates need updating to accommodate the points people have raised.

This assumes Greer is correct - she seems off target more often than not of late IMHO.

Have you seen the birth certificates Viviennemary?

Greer is being disingenuous. As she often is.

Of course he is not the mother. It is a blatant inaccuracy and untruth and I am amazed it was allowed on the birth certificate. Money talks.

I'm pretty sure when same sex couples get married they don't refer to them as husband and wife do they

Actually yeah some do.

It's funny how when boys adopt titles that are female titles, like princess and the like, we see this as progressive.

But mother is hands off?

Baring it mind you don't have to be fertile, in possession of a vagina, or have given birth to be classed as a mother.

So we're willing to share titles that were made for women only, only when it suits us.

Oh dear the poor kids born on these technologies. No one can even agree who the mother is and how many parents they have but they are expected to suck it all up and accept it graciously. They get no say while the whole world dissects their lives.

The new UK birth certificate lists mother and then father/parent. The registrar crosses out father or parent, depending on the gender of the second parent, as far as I understand it. I read that, but I actually thought there were separate birth certificate forms - one with father and one with parent. Either way, I believe those are the two options.

I think there is a website somewhere where people born of surrogacy and similar are asking for secondary information to be added to the birth certificate - for example adding a genetic mother as well as a biological one, in cases where that is relevant.

Athenaviolet, I'm assuming your quoting me. I'm still getting to grips with MN. Why did that make your jaw drop?
In modern society aren't boundaries blurring? With male female parents, single parents, same sex parents. I'm not saying to erase mothers, just that it shouldn't matter who's name is under which label.

Just because you haven't created the egg doesn't mean you can't be a mother

No, but having a penis and 'identifying' as male does.

But he isn't a mother - adopted or otherwise. He's a man and thus completely unable to be a mother.

He is a PARENT and should be recognised as such legally but equality isn't calling someone who is quite blatantly not a mother, a mother.

It kinda makes the whole thing look and sound ridiculous. I'm pretty sure when same sex couples get married they don't refer to them as husband and wife do they?