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Original poster

women in (classical) music

42 replies

mousmous · 24/05/2015 12:25

fight between my sisters.
watched eurovision last night and saw that the austrian brass band in the interval was very male heavy.
at college/uni it's about 50/50 in brass section but in orchestras it's more like 95/5 (if that, the most famous austrian only 'allowed' women to join after a court case recently).
one sister and I are at the 'angry' stage whilst our younger sister is in 'they didn't practice enough to get through a fair selection procedure'.
fair selection my arse

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Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 15:26

but french horn is the one which has more female professional players than any other brass instrument in an orchester. even though it is said to be the most difficult to play.

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yallsexist · 24/05/2015 15:18

It just stands to reason that a heavy instrument like a french horn will have more males that play it. I'm not saying females can't play it, I'm saying that quantifiably more males will.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 24/05/2015 15:10

yall dear, do you actually read threads before dribbling on them?

yallsexist · 24/05/2015 14:43

If their arms can't lift up these instruments, they shouldn't be expected to play them.

OrlandoWoolf · 24/05/2015 14:28

There is something about conductors as well - rare to find female conductors. The "usual" discussion about a career like this and family came up.

www.classical-music.com/blog/why-arent-there-more-women-conductors-jude-kelly-leads-discussion-southbank-centre

Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 13:59

thanks for the literature suggestions.

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SanityClause · 24/05/2015 13:15

Well, exactly. How many of their male colleagues are doing that juggling? I would think a male player could more easily expect to find a partner willing to support his career by taking on childcare responsibilities.

Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 13:10

my sisters both are orchestra musicians. both brass.
it works for them with a combination of school/nursery and grandparents.

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SanityClause · 24/05/2015 13:04

I have mentioned the blind auditions to people in the music world, who have given a knowing smirk, so I expect you are right.

It's obviously a good thing for male players to be able to only actually have to compete against half of the eligible candidates.

Get your little sister to read Cordelia Fine's Delusions Of Gender, if she really believes that women are inherently worse brass players than men.

I would also suggest that a musician's hours may not be family friendly, so unless she had an understanding partner, a woman may not be able continue an orchestral career if she had children.

Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 13:01

bassoon and clarinets and percussions are (equally?) physical and there the female representation is much higher.

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YDdraigGoch · 24/05/2015 12:52

Likewise though, woodwind at youth orchestra level is very female biased, especially flutes and clarinets.

HarpyBeard · 24/05/2015 12:52

I don't think anyone would deny that until very recently many orchestras were immensely patriarchal institutions - the Vienna Phil is a particularly outrageous example, having not appointed a woman to a permanent position until 1997. Their membership is still only 6 or 7% female, and they weren't conducted by a woman until some stage in the last couple of years. I would say that was a combination of Austria being a socially conservative country in many ways, and an unusually chauvinistic orchestral culture.

Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 12:49

vienna philharmonic, in theory they admit women but only have a handful.

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Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 12:48

austrians do, too. but there are rumours that the piano player identifies females by playing a cerain way...

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YokoUhOh · 24/05/2015 12:47

Is it the Vienna Phil which still only admits male players, or is that relic gone for good?

SanityClause · 24/05/2015 12:43

There's a bit about this in Malcolm Gladwell's book, Blink.

American orchestras apparently now audition blind, because of the ingrained sexism towards female brass players.

Original poster
mousmous · 24/05/2015 12:27

your thoughts?
brass instruments are physical but there are excellent female musicians, especially on french horn which (ironically) is the physically most demanding of all brass instruments.

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