Just a bit of a question not a judgement about the boards

True. I myself am quite brilliant, and shit at theoretical wank.

Let's join together and smash the system, sister.

The thing is, if you would allow other women to use this space, there would be much more rational discussion. There are loads of very clever women on MN who are capable of discussion without indulging in theoretical wank.

almond - well, at least theoretical wank is less messy than practical wank.

(I'm sorry. I'm very childish.)

Personal, petty and anti-intellectual ?

I dunno but then again I'm siting here trying to make Frozen bunting to pin up on my (pink) bell tent tomorrow so what do I know ?

If things had worked out differently, and we had actually discussed the nature of support and online communication from a feminist perspective, it is very likely someone would have turned up to complain that regulars on FWR and the OP were talking theoretical wank.

Well, I think that's rude to the OP, but yes, TBH, I agree with you.

Doesn't really follow that FWR is.

Surely you can see that this thread is the very embodiment of the petty, personal and anti-intellectual?

Do you think it does, didyou?

I mean, obviously, feminism is personal - 'the personal is political' is a fairly well-known feminist saying.

But I'm not clear on the other two. Only on this thread, someone else has claimed that this thread is about 'academic' feminism (not that LTB seems very academic to me).

I think it's a shame if MN reinforces the idea that feminists are petty, personal and anti-intellectual.

I think it happens because it is political and deeply personal.

I certainly went through a phase of denial about feminism. It was too difficult to look at my life and analyse it that way. It was easier to say that I lived my life exactly the way I wanted it and no harm was being done to me by living in such a sexist society and if I could avoid it, why couldnt all other women ?

To hear a feminist perspective is difficult - it feels like an attack and it's easier to deflect than to consider whether there is any truth to it. Add in that women new to feminism can be very angry, confused and feel disempowered. It takes a long time to get passed that but the problem is that once you see the inequality, you start to see the harm and then you start to see how you contribute to it. So as a feminist the only way forward is to start to speak out.

And then you have the fact that women still aren't allowed to speak out. There is real hatred in some sections of society to women and they do not want us to speak up. We all internalise that.

It's a potent mix.

I agree.

I do also think there is a stereotype, much wider than MN, that all feminists are running a closed shop, and are paranoid/humourless/petty/irrational.

These are old ideas that have been around for generations. It's not surprising people come to MN FWR with those ideas in their minds.

I agree, though, that MN as a whole is hugely feminist.

I think most people on here do, TBR.

And almond I refuse to believe you're not reasonable! You're stuck with it forever from me I'm afraid.

The pity of it is that feminism is political. Yet all this is personal, and petty. And utterly irrational.

Yes. There are no other sections (as far as I know) where there are whole threads as well as posts that get deleted with such frequency because the OP or major poster is a banned poster.

The only similar thing was the deleting of numerous threads started by new racist posters on AIBU in the run up to the election.

Yep meant within MN not other boards, sorry. Definitely seen my share of board wars- but I guess it surprised me here.

Blistory thanks for that. It does help but for me doesn't quite explain the level of it. I mean I guess if I felt a board was unfriendly I don't think I'd feel the need to let them know. Repeatedly. But then I suppose that's a personal choice.

BlackRider- that's exactly what someone who owns a sword would say.

There are 2 backstories that are interlinked.

Back in the day, FWR attracted some real trolls who conducted a real hate campaign against the posters then. Spilled over into real life.

It created an atmosphere and hostility with regulars not able to distinguish between trolls and other posters. FWR gained a reputation for being a closed shop.

Years afterwards, posters who once got a hard time remember and continue to talk about the FWR board as it was. Despite the fact that very few of us from that time still post here. Despite the real effort that FWR posters go to, they are berated for something that no longer exists.

Running parallel is the fact that throughout, FWR continues to attract trolls and MRAs who can be vicious to posters. Posters from MN pop in briefly and see the response to these trolls and assume that it's just like days gone by.

MNHQ are better at zapping trolls but seem powerless to deal with the constant goading that still goes on.

So we have a board which is trolled, which some other posters pop on just to wind up "the feminists" and which, as a consequence is very protective and possibly a little too defensive on occasion.

What non regulars don't see is the number of threads that get deleted or posts that get deleted. There have been umpteen olive branches offered but it just takes one thread like the one you're talking about, for everyone to roll their eyes at FWR kicking off again.

Contrary to popular opinion, there isn't a feminist klaxon that calls us all to a thread but we can't get away from that accusation.

Which is why I got frustrated because it's been the same old, same old for years. I've looked to myself as have others but it doesn't matter. The irony is that MN has become more feminist as a result of the effort that posters go to on here but heaven forbid that anyone recognises the effort, intellect and support that goes on in FWR to make that possible.

I agree, Dadwashere, but think maybe Shaska meant section rather than board, and was comparing to the rest of MN?

It doesn't happen on other boards, just this one.

It happens on a ton of boards about a ton of different things. IMO its just that the moderation of this one is the most liberal I have ever seen, and I have been around forums and been a mod of others since before the net was made public. That's not to say I am unhappy with the mods here, its just to say that any overseer effect, where a poster considers possible mod reactions before posting, seems non-existent. Only posters who begin frothing at the mouth and speaking in tongues need fear, and they are beyond fear anyway.