Are women better than men at childcare?

Agreed - I think that the lifestyles men are channelled into, and have been for millennia, lead to health problems, including heart disease, which has links to stress through long working hours.

If work was all it is cracked up to be in here, why don't us men take the other option and hand it over to the women? I could happily give up 18 years of my life doing a crappy job and then take leisurely lunches with my mates while our wives work themselves into an early grave. Then, once they have croaked, we can take the insurance payouts and go on the piss and golf in Spain for 20 years.

Obviously I am exaggerating, but to insinuate that working non-stop for 47 years at (for most people) unfulfilling jobs just to pay the mortgage/bills is more enjoyable that 18 years bringing up kids is a fallacy. The expectation placed upon men to work themselves into an early grave is as insidious as expecting every woman to be the perfect mother who forms an instant, loving bond with their baby at first sight.

I see what you're saying Yops but I don't understand this bit:

"I have to say, if I as a man was drawing up such a plan, I would construct one that didn't lead to my death several years before my partner. It seems like quite an oversight."

I haven't read anything that says that men's shorter lifespan is due to the fact that more of them work rather than look after children. I have read extensive research that says shorter lifespans are down to health behaviours and a greater tendency towards heart disease, which has nothing really to do with childrearing.

Cailin, re the correlation you asked about. There is an assumption, in this thread and others, that men opt out of this 'shit' stuff like childcare in order to do the 'good' stuff like work. And that this is part of some dastardly plan men have concocted to a). make women feel inferior, b) establish male superiority and c). go out and have a rip-roaring, fun-packed, totally spiritually fulfilling 40 hours away from home.

I have to say, if I as a man was drawing up such a plan, I would construct one that didn't lead to my death several years before my partner. It seems like quite an oversight.

Cailin, if I am mistaking you for someone else her, I apologise. But I think I have seen you post previously about your partner, the dad of your kids, who was rather a lazy twat. Didn't participate in bringing up the kids and left it all to you. If so, I understand how it shapes your views, but it really isn't fair to extrapolate this to the entire population. There are some awful dads, like there are awful mums. But there are some pretty good ones too, who take a full and active part in their kids' lives from birth. I was one, but so were my friends and most of the blokes I know. And we do it because we love our kids, and frankly for me and most being a dad is 99 per cent brilliant. At least until the 13th birthday, then it drops to about 65-70 . And I would not change a second of it.

The only difference is that women are expected to be good at it and men are not.
I would think a man who couldn't deal with his own baby, change it, bathe it, feed it, put it to bed etc. utterly pathetic, DH was a hands on parent from the second DD was born 25 years ago, he did the early baths/ changes etc. as much, if not more than me.

To echo what cailindana said, when I became a mother, one of the hardest things I found to deal with was the fact that in the end, it came down to me to settle the baby. That I had to just suck it up and cope. There was no other option. DH was and is a good dad, but the times when only mum will do can be draining. Father's usually have the option, particularly in the early days, of passing the buck to mum.

I don't really want to describe myself as 'better' than DH at childcare, because I don't feel I am a better parent, but more often than not, I can settle the children quicker. But that isn't because I'm better, it's because it's me that's always done it. Maybe it would be different had our roles been reversed. If it had been him primarily meeting their needs, they'd probably ask for him first over me.

I think the 'nurturing' role goes beyond childcare too, such as when caring for elderly parents or other adults. Women are more likely to be providing unpaid care than men, and are more likely to reduce paid work in order to do this (which can also end up with them having smaller pensions).

Anyway, to actually answer your question OP, I think society in general accepts/assumes that women are better than men at childcare. But I'm not sure how this joins up with the attitude that fathers that take on the primary childcare role are somehow better, as has been mentioned on this thread. I agree with others here that if women are 'better' than men, it's only because women do the most of it.

Ah sorry Buffy, cross posts. Carry on! I agree.

I know! Poor guy he didn't know what to say to them when they arrived saying "Ooh I found this lovely job for you..." Some of them just couldn't believe that he was at home by choice and not because he lacked the faculties to pick up a newspaper or search the internet. He's a nice guy and so didn't spit in their faces like I suggested!

cailindana

Funny about the job ads, but also ridiculous!

No Buffy I didn't imply that she should. I didn't say "objectively", and the "and/or" for quantify should make it clear I don't think it's necessary. Just interested in what and how OP proposes to research.

My SAHD friend had a mixture of both but only from women MrNosey. Men took absolutely no notice of the fact that he stayed at home but women either patronised the living daylights out of him and bombarded him with job adverts (I kid you not, women who he'd met once at toddler group would turn up the next week with job ads, as though the only reason he was at home was because he was too stupid to find himself a job) or made out like he was some sort of holy grail of manhood because he did what millions of women do every day without a grain of praise.

"DH is randomly praised and hailed as some kind of demi-god for being willing to wipe bums and noses"

Praised by men or women?
The few I know are kind of ridiculed from time to time, mostly by men but also by other mum's, like they are substandard men for doing this and not earning a living

It's worth remembering that men are also trained into feeling that women's work is beneath them, so many actively avoid it and genuinely feel bad if they do it. They find it embarrassing or "emasculating" to be the one pushing the pram or changing the nappies, and so not only do they not practice it in the way women do, they actually have an aversion to it.

Many women never hold a baby until their own baby arrives. Then they are left with that baby, on their own, while their partner goes to work. They absolutely have to step up and learn, fast, how to cope. There is no other choice. Men, on the other hand, feel they can opt out and faced with the difficulty of dealing with a tiny, dependent life, many do opt out and never throw themselves into it. Thus they miss out on the on-the-job training, they don't pick up the subtle things like watching out for tiredness so that you don't time the nap too late etc. They get it wrong, and either the partner takes over (because she doesn't want to see the baby's needs not being met and feels she knows how to do it) or the man bumbles along continuing to get it wrong and getting more and more frustrated and feeling he can't manage. Learning how a baby works takes time and women are forced to put in that time. If men had to, they would be just as good.

Yops I'm interested in this part of your post: "And it might be worth bearing in mind that this split of duties along gender lines correlates with women living longer to the tune of several years." Could you expand on it?

And how "better" (however you define it) will be quantified objectively.

I think you will need to define what you mean by "better" - more willing or more able.

No. Women are not better at it because of our biology.

There is no gene for it. A female infant is not born with genetic childrearing knowledge, but from the day they're born they are trained for the role. Baby dolls, pushchairs, toy kitchens, etc etc. Moulded into a nurturing role. Grow up watching gender roles play out. Absorbing messages day in day out from everywhere.

It's purely, wholly, totally, completely, that it's expected that women do it.

As with anything, the more you do it, the better you are at it.

The reason many women seem to be better is that they do it more, so become better, so seem better, so people say they're better, so it's expected that they do it, so they get trained to do it, so they're better, so people think they're better, etc etc etc

Load of shite. DD's dad is much better with her than I am. Same level.

How are you hoping to research and/or quantify the acceptance (or not) of the myth?

There is no reason why women should be better at it. I was, and am, an awesome dad. My wife would baulk at the shit and vomit - it didn't bother me. Nappies, pushing prams, playing in the park - I loved it all. My wife is better at the creative, arty stuff, but that is just a talent she has.

Yes, some of it can be repetitive and boring. But then outside of the Mumsnet bubble where everyone is a city hotshot, lots of jobs are like that too. And it might be worth bearing in mind that this split of duties along gender lines correlates with women living longer to the tune of several years. And the latest research, as roles become less split, seems to be leading to this gap closing.

We are no better at child care than men and that attitude is disappearing. I find it very interesting that from some of the comments that unpaid work is discribef negatively. Why is it called 'unpaid work'. Why is wanting a well kept home drudgery. Why is having hands covered is child care looked at as unpaid work.
It's a privalage to look after a child. Whoever stays at home does most of the house stuff as they are there.
Women stay at home more often as they bare the child. Another privalage. I personally if having a choice of working in a repetitive unforfilling job (many are ) or staying home looking after child and home, I choose the later.
I had the privalage to be able to go part time. My other half worked extra hours in a difficult job to allow me to do it. I am really grateful to him. As he too was exhausted from his efforts.

Women are better at breastfeeding. That's it.

The title says "Are women better than men at childcare?" but then lower down we get "I am researching whether it is accepted/not, that women are generally better than men at carrying out unpaid work - specifically childcare".

So what's the issue, is it whether women genuinely are better at childcare, or is it that it's widely believed, regardless of whether it's true or not?

Anyway, perhaps the major inequality is willingness rather than inherent skill.

I don't think that women are innately better at childcare than men.

I think that in reality, women are better at childcare than men - but only because women do more of it, and therefore get more practice at it. If men spent as much time looking after children as women do, I doubt there'd be much difference in ability to do it.

Agree that social conditioning plays a large part too. There's still an expectation that childcare and housework are for women, so from an early age, women and girls are encouraged to practice these things in a way that men and boys aren't.

Btw I also believe women are conditioned to be less violent. So men can be too.

And as for the rest of the unpaid work, tis more social conditioning innit. Men get out your dusters, you know you love it!

So no in answer to your question. Men should pull out their fingers and do more of it.