teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

think porn has ruined sexual relationships for a lot of people. It's become so degrading...When I was young, sex was quite vanilla and you became more adventurous as you got older and more experienced. It think it's really sad that young people are now expected to act like a porn star when they first meet somebody and they have to pretend that they enjoy it.

^^ this

mind you when I grew up (90s) it was pressure to do blow jobs and regular sex

BUT if you did it you were a slag

if you didn't do it you were "frigid"

I always remember how I lost my virginity, 14 to a boy who was pretty nasty to me really. he dumped me after and told everyone I was shit in bed

tangent but I really do worry for my daughters as it seems its even worse now

This is appalling. A reminder to talk to our sons and daughters about these important issues. Not to shy away from them, much as I might want to!

I will discuss this with my sons when they are older.

I think porn has ruined sexual relationships for a lot of people. It's become so degrading.

When I was young, sex was quite vanilla and you became more adventurous as you got older and more experienced. It think it's really sad that young people are now expected to act like a porn star when they first meet somebody and they have to pretend that they enjoy it.

Can't see anyone arguing that teenage girls should be pressurised into anal sex..... Just that they shouldn't be pressurised into ANYTHING sexual and demonising anal sex as "not normal" is not a helpful attitude, indeed can be seen as quite an insulting/shaming one

and who the hell do these vile little boys think they are forcing girls to do stuff????

I have daughters and I swear I would hunt down any little shit who hurt any of them in this way

utterly vile (and I speak as someone who thinks anal is fine in a consenting ADULT relationship)

Lurcio having read your analogy, I read "prude shaming" as "prune shaming"

But on the actual topic of the thread - agree the whole thing is deeply depressing. This has nothing to do with teenage girls' developing sexuality and learning what they want for themselves and everything to do with their developing servility.

How fucking depressing. I don't think we have moved on at all.

And frankly I find it extraordinary that anyone thinks it's only feminists and radio 4 listeners who think inexperienced teenagers should probably not try anal intercourse, and thqt teenage girls should definitely not be pressurised into trying it.

Who is shaming anyone Higgle? Because it isn't feminists. It is the boys putting pressure on girls to do anal sex who are doing the shaming.

"90% of the other Mumsnet posters avoid like the plague because you can't say anything in this section without someone having a go." Oh give over. Some of us disagree with you. Just like in AIBU.

I think that the "eww poo/it's not normal" view is actually part of the problem- if it wasn't so taboo, the attraction of it being so daring/worth boasting about etc might not be there?

"and no one should feel ashamed of liking generally unpopular practices just because Radio 4 and the regular posters in "feminism" say so."

This thread is about teenagers- not what experienced adults choose to do.

And anyone should be bloody ashamed if they are co tribute be to making it OK for teenage girls to be pressurised into doing things which a) they don't know whether they want to or not but are doing because somebody else wants to and b) which unless both partners are experienced and skillful (does that sound like the average teenager to you?) can be physically damaging.

I ment to add, I do agree with regards to consent, however I would add that really consent in this case would need to include knowledge of what it can do to the body. I don't think many young girls/women know until it is too late the damage it can inflict on the body.

Pandora, please don't compare female genital mutulation with consenting adults enjoying sex, that's ridiculous. And noone 'designed' my body, thank you, so please stop judging people who enjoy sexual practices different to your own.

LA. there isn't much there I'd disagree with you about. I found this thread on "last 15 minutes" and felt interested enough to post as my views are as valid as anyone else's, but I didn't notice it the thread was in the feminist section, which I and 90% of the other Mumsnet posters avoid like the plague because you can't say anything in this section without someone having a go. So, no one should do anything they don't want to , if you are with someone who doesn't like the same things as you it is unlikely to work out, and no one should feel ashamed of liking generally unpopular practices just because Radio 4 and the regular posters in "feminism" say so.

We've been getting sex wrong as a species for a bloody long time. I think this whole topic is just further evidence of this.

Someone else's definition of what is 'normal' does not mean that things that fall outside that definition are wrong. We don't all have to stick to the same as what the majority of other people choose to do.

I'm sorry but I disagree. In some cultures it is 'normal' to circumcise girls, it is not imho ok to do this, consented or otherwise. Some things just are not normal even if they are 'normal'. Having a cock up the arse on a regular basis is not normal. Our bodies are simply not designed to do this. As I said there is an increased risk of prolapsed rectum and incontinence.

It is very sad that this sexual act is becoming the norm.

Meph

Higgle's attitude makes me think of those rather tiresome people who say "what do you mean, you've never wanted to try snails in a garlic and pomegranate jus?" or "well of course you really need to get into early monastic polyphony of the 14th century in Andalucia, because unless you can enjoy that you will never really feel connected to Bach.." Irritating in its competitive I'm-cooler-than-you-ness.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with having what I think of as a "prunes and custard" list (named after the incident when the deputy head at my infants school tried to force feed the 5-year-old me prunes and custard - let us just say she regretted it and did not try it twice). I have no desire to try anal. This doesn't mean I don't like sex, just that I have no desire to try anal. Nor does it mean that I haven't met the right sex god who could make anal work for me - any more than Michel Roux could make prunes and custard palatable for me. Sexual desires are arbitrary, and that's fine.

Of course what's damaging about turning sexual preferences into a "cooler than you" game of one-upmanship is that (infant school teachers aside) no one tries to force feed me prunes and custard, but sexual assault is a very real and terrible risk in women's lives. And neither "slut shaming" (what do you mean, you do anal, how could you?) or "prude shaming" (what do you mean, you wouldn't even try anal?) help a teenage girl being forced to have a form of sex she doesn't want and finds painful. The first entrenches the rape myth that says only virgins can be raped, and then only down dark alleys, and anything else is just "wrong signals". The second denies women agency and the right to decide what they want to do with their own bodies.

And there's ample evidence (for instanceBMJ article which I think people have linked to newspaper coverage of) to suggest girls are being coerced into sex they don't want, then find painful and physically damaging, by boys who are aware before the even that the girls don't want it and will find it painful... And that is an intolerable state of affairs and no amount of "but my sexual practices make me feel soooooo connnected to my partner" make that okay.

And anyone who thinks porn does no harm should read this thread- and think on as my mil would say.

" No one should be pressured into doing anything they are not comfortable with but sadly refusal of oral sex does make men and women feel rejected as a person."

Yep- that's always been a line men use to get women to do things they don't want to. "If you really loved me you would.........."

We need to teach our children- girls and boys - about bodily autonomy and consent.

I really don't think it is up to girls to have to resist pressure, but it is up to boys to stop applying that pressure.

"We need to crack down hard on boys who have this attitude that they are entitled to do this. Why the hell is it always a girl's responsibility to be a gatekeeper?" Completely agree.

I don't think girls nowadays are much different from my day. In my day the pressure was to give a BJ and I know a number of my friends did to avoid 'going the whole way'. The boundaries have been pushed to where the pressure is being applied (and I think that is a serious concern) but the pressure was always there.

I agree with both of the "opposing" arguments about not wanting to do a particular sexual act; no, I would not enjoy someone doing something with me that they didn't also enjoy. But also, if they point blank "didn't do" certain things that I personally really really enjoy, then I would consider us not sexually compatible- so yes, that is a rejection of sorts, really.

Education is what is needed - to teach what consent really means.

If two people want to have anal sex, that is their business, but it must be completely consentual, where both people fully understand what they are doing and have agreed to it without any manipulation or coercion.

Someone else's definition of what is 'normal' does not mean that things that fall outside that definition are wrong. We don't all have to stick to the same as what the majority of other people choose to do.

Consent is what matters. People need to understand that they must seek and give consent when they want to do something sexual with someone else, and that consent must be freely given. If it isn't, then that act becomes abusive.

Not in my case it didn't.

This is the crucial bit of that article

"I’m afraid things are much worse than people suspect.” In recent years, Sue had treated growing numbers of teenage girls with internal injuries caused by frequent anal sex; not, as Sue found out, because she wanted to, or because she enjoyed it – on the contrary – but because a boy expected her to. “I’ll spare you the gruesome details,” said Sue, “but these girls are very young and slight and their bodies are simply not designed for that.”

What the hell is society about when its girls are expected to do something that damages them internally and causes incontinence (further down the article)?

I don't care what a few women say: it is deeply not normal to take part in an activity that can cause internal injuries and incontinence, never mind that it is deeply not normal to do it not because you want but because some teenage boy fancies shoving his cock where it isn't wanted.

We need to crack down hard on boys who have this attitude that they are entitled to do this. Why the hell is it always a girl's responsibility to be a gatekeeper? Although we need somehow to also instil in girls that it doesn't matter what the boy wants. It is just not important. It is your body and your decision and if he still thinks its OK dump him - he's a total loser.

I admit I am so baffled why girls feel the constant need to please boys - surely girls now can't be so different to me and my friends where the response would have been "fuck off sunshine". And if they are so different today then society is indeed "broken" as the politicos like to say.

Oh and girls could also try what the writer recommends i.e. you first mate, while wielding an extremely large dildo. Net that would make male enthusiasm wane...

No one would want their partner to do anything they didn't want to do, but for myself there is no true compatability that would make a permanent relationship viable without total physical acceptance on both sides. Fortunately that is not a problem I have had in the last 30 years :-)