teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

Hakluyt: I am, and always have been, predominantly a writer. I worked mostly on porn magazines in the 1990s and early 00s. Writers in porn (not unlike writers in Hollywood) have little power/control over things like hiring and paying of models.

As to ways of changing porn for the better: unionization for performers would help. Performers need and deserve fair contracts, fair rates of pay and freedom from coercion,etc. And ethical porn is not a 'niche' market purely because people don't want to look at it and would rather look at exploitative gonzo stuff, it's a small market at present because the people producing it are a small number of people without much commercial power, who may struggle to get distribution/ promotion and are disproportionately hassled by the authorities. So it's hard to hear of and often harder to get.

"I have apologised to SGB for being wrong about her job"
Not sure why you had to apologise- she says herself she works in the porn industry and not as an "actor". So very little difference between her role and that of a producer, surely? If you're not one of the exploited you're one of the exploiters.

I think there is a lot of pressure on girls to have anal, and I suspect/fear that most of them, just because they want to be accepted, fur fear of being talked about will do Anal, when they don't really want to.

However, let's not get this out of proportion. I mean let's not zone in on anal specifically here, think this is a general problem.

this is a common problem because I think that a lot of girls get to do all sorts of things from snogging before they're ready, to to being touched on their chest, to being touched down below, to giving a blow job. All of these things they do, when they don't really want to I suspect the pressure to do all sorts of things is worse now than it ever was before.

'Interesting TEDx. Does it throw a curve ball in the minds of anyone at the accusatory stance of 'making films and hiring people to work on them' that SGB had to duck from?'

No it doesn't, as the person who took that stance.

I have apologised to SGB for being wrong about her job, but I absolutely believe that being an employer and pornographer is totally different to being a person who is employed by those people, in ethical terms.

I watched the video last night and found it interesting, but I keep going round in circles trying to form a view. I'll try to say why, I'm not trying to piss anyone off,

Thinking of interviews I seen with famous porn stars, it's often said how they love their job and how they love sex, but when I think more, how many people would say they hate their job or don't like doing the things they have to do as part of their job knowing their employer is watching, and if an employer did see an employee saying such things, they would lose work wouldn't they? I'm not sure what my point is, just that when interviews and quotes are given as evidence of porn stars enjoying themselves, I think could they say otherwise without their profile, work and income being affected?

I watched the vid and while I think it's good she is trying to change the industry, part if me thinks it's still profiting from the bodies of others, and I'm not sure if I feel better about that because it's a woman controlling it. It's something I need to look into more so if anyone has any useful places I can start I be thankful.

And then I think would It really change what people consume, if the ethical porn became easily available and in larger quantities, would it change what people watch, or would it end up existing alongside the grimmer stuff, with a whole different market consuming the ethical stuff? I'm not sure it will reduce the amount of grim stuff being consumed, so then the grim stuff will continue to be produced, and our children will still be accessing it, so it brings me back to better sex education.

I keep going in circles and confuse myself so if I'm not making sense I'll try explain again.

Actually shrugging and giving up and saying "porn is never going to go away" seems to me to be a much more head in the sand attitude than critiquing it and recognising it for what it is and trying to change society's attitudes to women so that they don't find the sight of women being sexually tortured so exquisitely pleasurable that it brings them to orgasm.

the first step in changing anything is for the majority to accept it needs changing

while the as long as I get my orgasm I will turn a blind eye brigade carry on consuming cheap and nasty "first time 18yo gets her ass creamed" type stuff then nothing will ever be different

naice porn is a niche market. There just isn't the demand for it. Ask yourself why that is.

"But hey ho lets not work towards changing the industry so much better we complain about it and live it in control of men."

I would love to change the "industry". Tell me how. Happy to start today.

The head in the sand approach to dealing with porn while living in a fantasy world believing porn will go away is not going to help our kids. Fact is porn is not going away unless we start having everything we do online controlled. And all the clever kids/computer geeks will still be able to watch what is produced in the rest of the world. If you want to change things it takes time and pressure from inside. But hey ho lets not work towards changing the industry so much better we complain about it and live it in control of men. Because men in control of porn is a so much better idea than even considering that we could change the industry.

So ranting and recycling but the box has been opened and nothing is ever going to close it.

lovecat

YY Lovecat.

Am I the only one who finds the term ethical porn an oxymoron?

Lovecat-that is my new favourite thing.

"Society always wants to dump everything on parents, as if we can educate young people to be all sunshine and rainbows and that will prepare them for a dog eat dog society that everyone else is not changing."

Amen to that.

Why am I suddenly reminded of this...?

44 years ago when I wasa sixth former at very "naice" girls grammar there was plenty of swallowing going on, no porn available to my peer group then, just Fiesta and a knowledge that "blue" movies existed.

Porn has played a massive role and I welcome the movement for ethical porn. No it won't stop the cheaper porn but there is a market for it.
Whatever role porn has played, the solution is not in trying to ban it. That will never happen. Complaining about porn doesn't help. Telling teenagers not to watch it doesn't help - it won't stop them.
No bestiality is not going to be the next step. That's a slippery slope logical fallacy.

I think easy access of porn has a massive role to play here. 30 years ago when I was a teenager the pressure was applied to swallow - because thats what the current porn movies were big on. Now anal is such an everyday thing in porn movies it's obviously shifted again. Where will it stop though? Will bestiality become the 'norm'? (As appears to have been shown in that vile footballer's home video).
I worry for my daughters and granddaughter.

A few people will make expensive porn-sorry, I mean erotic films- and a few people will buy and watch them to salve their consciences. Maybe even Big Porno might make a few. Then the usual diet of cheap, exploitative bump and grind will continue to be churned out-but now people will be able to say "it's changing- look there are women behind the camera"

I think the change will only happen if people embrace the message, I hadn't seen that till yesterday and I am still in the process of what difference would it make? Dad the point I think is to create realism in erotic films. Just because someone made the Avengers doesn't detract from the making of Schindler's List or Erin Brocovich. May be it becomes a niche but we can't stop porn now unless we become almost like China and only be allowed on State Approved websites. So if we can't put it back into the box then having a more realistic genre might help. Unfortunately because of the stigma feminism has created around Porn many women will not look at working behind the camera, script writing or even producing and directing. Which leaves the industry firmly in the control of men.

If more sex positive feminists got involved then the industry stands a chance of changing but so long as the labels and stigmas are applied to any woman for daring to think about trying to change the industry from the inside we are ensuring men keep control.

Great. So far so idealistic. Any ideas how this "change" is going to happen?

Well, setting aside all notions of exploitation in porn or the morality of it, her central argument becomes that porn is unrealistic, and it is, very much so. But so is an Avengers movie, and so is most any movie for that matter. I think the question is, can she make porn that men will want to watch or is she just going to make porn that women will more enjoy watching?

I think its the later. Female consumer oriented porn already exists and did pre-internet, I watched it many years back with my then partner, but it was a tiny hat-full compared to entire bus-loads of formula male porn and I see no reason that ratio will ever be different in the future. Moreover, putting morality back into it for a second, just because that particular porn was blessed by sex-positive feminism, was it really that less exploitive just because it focused more on the pleasures of the women participating in it? There is real positive porn out there I think, mostly amateur porn when morally produced and distributed, but the volumes of production and consumption of porn is not unlike 999 restaurants out of every 1000 being nothing but junk food with people not giving a second thought about wolfing it down.

Interesting TEDx. Does it throw a curve ball in the minds of anyone at the accusatory stance of 'making films and hiring people to work on them' that SGB had to duck from?

Great. So far so idealistic. Any ideas how this "change" is going to happen?

Interesting TED talk by Erika Lust feminist erotic filmmaker. She wants to change porn rather than get rid of Porn. She has made it clear it is about making erotic films realistic. Warning she doesn't hold back.

All right, now get it. Almondcakes may have been answering Lurcio, who said "the main burden for doing this lies with people like me - parents of boys". I think Almondcakes' meaning was that anyone who talks to boys about pornography will probably be their mothers and not their fathers. Pretty certainly true in most families.

It would be nice to think that children will hear something about pornography in their SRE lessons, and they should hear it from both women and men. I suppose I'd want the kids to hear that the world is flooded with the stuff, but it's not a realistic presentation of most people's experience of sex. And something about how sex should take place between people who respect each other, and if you're having sexual fantasies, are you enjoying a scenario where you have power over another person. Certainly no approval for boys pressuring girls for anal sex!