Need a bit of help in talking to DP who says '.... Because I'm a man'

dadwashere I think people find successful emotional management attractive. Neither breaking down in tears at the sheer beauty of the world at the drop of a hat, nor violently acting in anger (wether verbally or physically) is particularly attractive.

I don't think the 'boys don't cry' thing is that modern - I think it's just something that's gone in and out of popularity as a cliche. I certainly don't think there's much evolution there.

But I think dadwas is right that men assume crying/showing open emotion isn't desirable, an also right that men tend to see this in that context of desirability. But surely if you are married to someone, and have children with them, it does need to be a bit more than that?

penelope, if his son/daughter was crying, would he see that as 'feminine'? Or would he just figure it was a child being upset?

dadwashere that sounds an awful lot like you're blaming women for men bottling up their feelings. women are of course as influenced by society about how men and women should behave, but i do believe it is within men's power to change this attitude. i would also see a man prioritising "finding a mate" over expressing emotion as another demonstration of how toxic masculinity is harmful to men, in the sense that finding a sexual partner is seen as the ultimate goal that should not be questioned

i'm also not sure that many people (men or women) show the full depths of their emotions during the first few dates. certainly women are advised strongly not to in heterosexual dating (which is all i know of), and that crying or showing strong emotion will "scare him off".

"I think dp is ready to be educated, please give me some more things to say!"

I'm not going to do that, because I don't think it is up to one spouse to 'educate' the other about something.

You chose a fully formed human being, one who has unfortunately been imbued with rigid gender stereotypes. Yes, I'd find that an undesirable quality too. But unless he is asking to be 'educated' then this is a hiding to nowhere.

The 'men don't cry' might be true as a stereotype, but so is 'I'll change him'.

Yes, there is a very British 'stiff upper lip' culture that is still alive and kicking.

I've never seen my dad cry, my DP only a couple of times, at bad news. I don't think I've ever seen a man cry at something happy.

But then I'm not really a crying person either. I don't cry at the things lots of women cry at. I think we're all socialised out of it.

I suppose that how I parent my DCs too. I tell them not to cry. I tell them crying doesn't help.

Are other cultures different?

Men in the eighteenth century were expected to cry at sad things to express their deep sympathetic nature. You were a philistine and an oaf if you didn't. The boys don't cry thing is quite modern.

'Boys dont cry' was an advancement, because crying became seen as part of a man that needed to be repressed, no longer just imagined as a simple tap that could be turned off on a battlefield as needed, lest you get shot by your own side for cowardice. It evolved to be seen as a real part of the man, not a social affectation.

Feminism seems to see the 'real men dont cry' as a male mindset that is part and parcel of machismo. Its not about the physical act of crying though, even an onion will trigger that, its about the emotional openness, sensitivity and vulnerability that leads to crying. I have seen this stuff discussed at length in male forums. In my opinion this is not as male exclusive as feminists generally believe. A man who opens up emotionally is, for women, commonly seen as a desirable and positive thing if that man is their partner. Who would not want to better empathise and understand their partner, after all? But when 'men dont cry' stuff is discussed in male forums the same unwanted conclusion keeps floating to the surface, and that is while women see this as a desirable trait in a partner it is seen as an undesirable trait in choosing a partner in the first place. In other words, to find a mate, a man projects strength and sensitivity to a womans emotions but only selectively reveals his own, because crying can easily be perceived not as sensitivity but as vulnerability, and while women like to exercise sympathy and empathy for the vulnerable it seldom inspires desire for them.

Men in the eighteenth century were expected to cry at sad things to express their deep sympathetic nature. You were a philistine and an oaf if you didn't. The boys don't cry thing is quite modern.

Do you think it's your job to educate him OP? That sounds a bit exhausting.

I don't cry at happy stuff either. Unless I'm laughing so hard I cry.

Which makes me laugh even harder...

not helpful, will get my coat

I have a good friend (male) who is like this, as is his father. I do think it is worrying if someone has been brought up to think it's bad to show emotion.

As others say - it's not about whether or not he cries, it's his reaction around it.

If it is unusual for him to come out with cliches like 'feminine side', I wonder if he was caught off balance? What's he usually like?

I cry all the time at sad and happy stuff on tv and in real life and I have been noticably worse since I had my son. I used to think it was hormonal but as he is now 8 I am not sure. His dad cries at sad things but never at happy stuff. I don't think he holds it in or thinks he shouldn't because he is a man, he just doesnt do it. That isn't to say he doesn't feel some of the emotions I do. People aren't more or less upset depending on whether or not thet cry.

Apologies OP, I misread the title. It is an outdated attitude. There is no such thing as a 'real man' - not in the sense he means, anyway. His reaction to any given situation is his alone. It does not reflect on his 'manliness' in any way.

i think it's fair to question his views about "real men don't cry". it's an attitude that has served men very badly on the whole, even if not crying as a response to emotional situations works for him personally

My OH doesn't cry at happy stuff, nor alot at unhappy stuff.I am not sure I do either to be honest.

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here.

I feel emotion fine, and I am actually quite a cheerful person but no I don't cry it seems pointless to me. I don't see anything wrong with not crying.

Sanctimonious, yes, it drives me mad if I cry in anger and a man swears and slams the phone down in anger, but I'm the weak and emotional one...

I think men and women can cry differently which makes some men think (and they're wrong and usually sexist) that women use tears to get their way. I find it hard not to cry when I've been treated unfairly. it is anger and injustice that make me struggle to maintain my composure. I think men's anger is less often expressed in that way. It doesn't make it wrong if women express some emotions in tears though, so I wouldn't try that hard to convince him that men cry too. TBH, women are allowed to be women, women have their own female sexuality and there is a lot of pressure on women to have a more male sexuality (when it suits that individual male I think). So many men don't get that women are entitled to have their own way of reacting, their own 'agenda', their own everything. So, so what if we cry a bit more. Women get in to fights less. Women aren't as aggressive (these are generalisations I know).

If you have a son I wouldn't want him brought up with the premise that "real men don't cry"

bbc article

Yops, OP is a long standing poster and "real men don't cry" is a well established trope. You are male, I think - have you come across this amongst friends?

Report if you think there's an issue.

he's entitle to express his own emotions as he wishes, but it must be more than that. why are you upset.

Do you want him to chat more? to be able to discuss things for enjoyment not just for basic information exchange. I wonder if you're trying to change him in to a man who has a more androgynous type of mind. It'll never work.

I could never again waste my time going out with a man who can't just talk for the enjoyment of talking. You can't pin it on being male. Some men can have an emotion, label it, tell you about it, talk about things...........

Hi Penelope

I think it's fair to say that men are socialised to cry less, in general. Certainly boy preschoolers and girl preschoolers both cry on an emotional level so I don't think it's biological.

The issue is more his dismissiveness
of emotion for men, not his own feelings as many people don't really cry happy tears anyway.

Can you talk to him about how he would react to emotions in future boy and girl children you have?

i would see less of a problem with crying not being his natural response to emotional situations (people respond differently - a large part may be socialisation but it also wouldn't be fair to force or expect a particular response) than i would with his reasonings about why it is that he doesn't cry. if he were just saying "i feel these things but don't express them in that way" then fine, but he seems to be judging men crying negatively by using phrases like "real men", "when men were men". it would worry me

So you want to make your partner cry?