Feminist chat about tv shows

Mad Men is excellent, the effect of sexism (and homophobia, and racism) on the victims is clearly shown, and there's a lot about the role of women.

The Good Wife is fantastic, lots of good female characters, and totally gripping.

Parks and Recreation is great.

Mad Men is not a horribly sexist show at all!

The Walking Dead has plenty of strong women.

Brooklyn 99 is pretty good for the number of female characters. They are allowed to be funny/silly/tough/clever/weird as much as the men, and there isn't the usual stereotypical female competitiveness/bitchiness.

I second Elementary and Person if Interest. Johnny Lee Miller is hot as hell very convincing as an attractive misanthrope - far better than Cumberbatch who failed to inject much humanity in the character. Lucy Liu's character is interesting and their friendship is beautifully written -they annoy the pants off each other but the (platonic) love between them is very obvious. I was very dubious about the new character Kitty, but there were a few very promising episodes in the last series where there were some very hard-hitting scenes about Kitty's past. I won't give spoilers but the tackled some very complicated stuff, stuff I've never seen dealt with in that way on TV before.
PoI is very silly but surprisingly deep. There are strong female characters but I find the writing of the male characters more interesting - they seem like typical loner/spy types but they clearly care about each other and at one point they discuss how nice it would be to have children. Physically they are ridiculously invincible but emotionally they are complicated, they are genuine people. There is an element of 'strong men saving women and children,' but they are some striking moments, such as when one character talks about how some people's lives come repeatedly under threat, which puzzled him until he realised those people were mostly women who were living with the person who would eventually kill them. It was quite a striking way to put it. It is a deceptively clever show.

For daytime TV (I work from home), you can't beat a bit of Judge Judy! I don't agree with her politics much, but there's no denying she's fought the good fight in her time (and yes, I have read her book ).

Anyone watched Elementary? It's Sherlock Holmes played by Johnny Lee Miller, set in NYC with Lucy Liu playing a female Watson. They've done a really good job of not making their dynamic a sexual one and Watson's journey is arguably far more interesting than Holmes'.

Orphan Black has to be one of the most wonderful feminist shows around. Not least due to Tatiana Maslany's stunning acting abilities and all-round mammoth effort.

Garfunkel and Oates (comedy about a female musical double act) was also brilliant, but I'm not sure too many folks will have seen it.

Veep - female US vice president comedy. Bitingly brilliant, a great source of vicious one-liners and starring a woman dealing with being a woman in politics.

And finally, Person of Interest. Maybe not in the first series, but in later ones it passes the Bechdel test with flying colours, has a variety of female characters ranging from moral to damaged to almost superhuman and it just keeps getting better.

On the flip side, my massive graphic novel and superhero fan DH is getting increasingly pissed off with me analysing his beloved material. Especially with the huge boom in Marvel stuff recently. Re the recent Daredevil series, I commented it's yet another story of the struggles of the straight white man and he actually let loose with 'I can't like anything any more!', for which he was roundly sniggered at. Don't even get us started on the 'why doesn't Black Widow have her own film' debate. Still, female Thor, upcoming Wonder Woman and (I think) Supergirl movies mean Marvel are at least paying some attention.

Mind you, shows like Arrow and The Flash are so boringly formulaic and it bothers me so much when these macho superheroes don't tell the women in their lives pertinent information under the guise of 'protecting' them instead of letting them make their own minds up. Gah.

It's not quite what you were asking I think but I watch a lot of children's tv and have started to get quite irritated. All make characters with one of two supporting female characters - Octonauts, tree fu tom etc jump out at me as ds's particular favourites currently.

I love ncis but really, fake characters, while great, always feel like they are there to ensure there's a woman with a strong character! Fails bechdel spectacularly.

OP re cooking shows, I totally agree. I watched Food and Drink the other day and it just felt a bit like Top Gear.

It is probably more at the teenage market but I think that is great for young women to watch something that is so lead by the female characters.
I also am a huge fan of Octavia.
Love Orphan Black as well.

House was good for strong, smart women.

Yes I was going to say The 100! Probably aimed at teens but hey. I like the way they've developed Octavias character.
I also second Orphan Black. Intresting to see one actress play a number of different female "types" if that make sense.

Anyone watch the 100? it's got great female characters

Flora That is very interesting about Outlander and the referendum. I am American, but with strong ties to Scotland, and my family and I followed the referendum debate closely, including the assertions that the delay in release of Outlander in the UK had nothing to do with the referendum.

I do think that as the series is progressing, they are making the Jacobite cause seem more like Scotland vs. England and glossing over the fact that many Scots supported the government.

Oh and I am still a Doctor Who fan, but disappointed that Moffat is writing because he writes women so appallingly, and men's relationships with women badly too. He was sort of bearable in Season 5 when he was still emulating Russell T Davies a bit but since then it's just gone downhill a bit which is a shame. I enjoyed Torchwood.

Jackie, when I was at home I used to watch Homes Under the Hammer and then scour iplayer for documentaries! I also used to watch House when they showed it on channel 5 at lunchtime, just when DS was napping.

I love Orphan Black too. Loved Fringe, my favourite show ever. Orange is the New Black is good although you can start to feel like the lesbian sex scenes are there to titillate - but perhaps that's good for lesbians, not just men? I don't know. Fringe is American but the main cast consists of two women and three men, although one of the women is an "assistant", so I suppose really only one main female character.

I am enjoying Gilmore Girls at the moment, which is old and not particularly taxing but it's nice comfort TV, woman centred, and is just really sweet. There is some problematic stereotyping of an Asian family. I take this as a product of the time but it's slightly uncomfortable.

I am also watching Supernatural, which has problematic themes - a lot of use of sexist language, "bitch" etc, almost overwhelmingly male cast, female good characters tend to get killed off before too long, female baddies seem to have much more sexual torture scenes, unnecessary nudity etc than male ones, but those scenes are rare and it manages not to annoy me 99% of the time, I think because it's so male centric, it's easier to ignore the occasional problematic elements. And when women are shown on screen as sexual elements the male characters are always respectful, so that's nice for such a male dominated show.

I am quite fussy about what I watch these days. I got a bit into Modern Family but it started to annoy me - there are a lot of jokes centred around two characters' gayness and another character's foreignness which make it a bit cringeworthy, and on the feminist theme in particular I don't like the way Claire and Phil always worry about their daughter "getting a reputation", and if you're looking for subversion of gender roles, you won't find any here.

I enjoyed Parenthood a lot, although it had very occasional instances of grrr when, again, two fairly conservative parents are shown having an entirely different attitude to their daughter dating than their son and nephew. Overall it was a nice series and the relationships shown were healthy models of relationships, or openly stated as unhealthy, which is a big thumbs up for me.

Another old one - the original series' of Jonathan Creek are great. The later ones without Caroline Quentin aren't quite as good, and one had quite a shocking scene of violence against women which bothered me just because it was such a contrast to the previous series.

I like Community a lot, but there is a lot of sexism in there, mainly from the difference between the stereotypes of the male and female characters. The male characters are meant to be taken more seriously whereas the female characters are usually presented as a bit of a joke, especially the "feminist character". Though the general interactions are not usually problematic and I find it believable and fun to watch.

I will always recommend Orphan Black, which has three female main characters (plus female supporting characters), and has a lot of thought-provoking stuff about identity and free will (trying to be spoiler-free). One thing I like is that the three main characters all have very different lives, but are never shown criticising each other for their choices.

Agents of SHIELD usually passes the Bechdel test because it has several female characters in the main cast who interact with each other. Agent May and Bobbie Morse do seem to be stereotypical 'strong female characters' though.

America crime dramas tend to only have one main female character - I love Castle and Person of Interest, but they both fall into this category. Interestingly, the Mentalist didn't as the team leader and one of the agents were both female, but I found the show annoying in other ways and have stopped watching now.

It's hard to think of other examples - says a lot!

The books are good at depicting rape as an act of violence/power rather than sex; I hope the TV does the same.

i didn't realize that Seneca that's interesting.

On another note, my cynicism about Outlander not getting a mainstream broadcaster may be justified. It seems David Cameron met with a senior exec at Sony and Outlander / Indy Ref was on the agenda:

www.weourselves.com/cameron-met-with-sony-pictures-about-release-date-of-outlander/

Can I mention the mind numbing tedium of daytime TV?

I imagine it's mostly watched by women (sahms, disabled women, elderly women etc).

It's soul destroying stuff. One day when off sick can be a bit of light relief but imagine if that was your 'company' day in day out?

Shows like loose women do seem to target women but why is the content so different from evening/weekend TV?

Where are the documentaries (apart from on special channels)?

Where are the current affairs programmes?

Do women at home really just care about the fashion segments on this morning?

The shift in gaze in Outlander in the wedding scene was supposedly so producer Ron Moore could insert a surprise love note to his wife Terry Dresbach, who is the costume designer on the series. It was a reference to something he said to her when they first got together. I didn't particularly like the shift either, but the wedding night scene was definitely very female gaze and beautifully done, I thought.

Also "The Americans". Elizabeth is great.

I've been enjoying Outlander and Vikings too. I think TV shows are much better in portraying women's characters than movies.

I had a silent gripe about the wedding scene in Outlander. In the book, the wedding scene was very female gaze as Claire admires Jamie in his full highland get up. In the TV show, it was male gaze with lingering shots on Claire. The show hasn't been too bad though in keeping Claire as the actor. She has good actiony stuff coming up.

Love the female "Navy Seal" squad in the latest Vikings.