"Men and women are just different and have different skills and talents"

"Those of you who think horses are a girl's activity have you ever actually been at a stables or a show or an event or a hunt?"

Yep. I have!

David beckham is v sensible to find himself a horse that doesn't require you to pick up frozen poo from a massive field in biting wind. That'll be his logical male brain.

Also, David Beckham on a horse:

www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8781444.ece/alternates/w620/becktop.jpg

So between us we've got dressage, eventing and cross country.

And a couple hundred mile cattle drive

According to the Encyclopaedia of Horseriding (aka the Novels of Jilly Cooper) lots of men are involved in horseriding. [wink}

The amount of energy that is spent refuting Stilllostatthestation's assumptions about posters here, good grief!

Spent so long writing that that I cross-posted re grass-roots!

I know what you mean about saddle soap

No one here is saying that it should be or is for girls anyway. But it's about perception in society. The saddle club wasn't a series aimed at boys. Horse and pony magazines (which I wallpapered my room with) weren't aimed at boys. There were a handful of boys I knew who rode but they tended to be from horse-owning and -riding families, whereas the girls ranged from families who owned horses to show to those who just went along for a weekly lesson. I know lots of people who (drag) hunt - it's not my thing as I do dressage - and there are a good few more men there. As with many things, the number of men at the top of the sport seems disproportionate to the number at grassroots level, but I don't know if that is truly the case.

But this is rather beside the point as usual

Hoof oil for me.

And agree about the difference between grassroots and high level. Because that never happens in anything else either....

"have you ever actually been at a stables or a show or an event or a hunt?"

Yes, it was a big part of my life for many years. Do I qualify as having an opinion on this worth listening to in your opinion?

Those of you who think horses are a girl's activity have you ever actually been at a stables or a show or an event or a hunt?

Yes. I have worked with horses, shown and evented in 4 countries. Not hunted of course, because only complete shitheads hunt.

Horse-riding is seen as a female activity? By whom? If that's what springs to mind that's your prejudice showing, not reality.

Right-ho.

Those of you who think horses are a girl's activity have you ever actually been at a stables or a show or an event or a hunt?

Horse-riding is seen as a female activity? By whom? If that's what springs to mind that's your prejudice showing, not reality.

And pets are for boys?

What is the point of these generalisations? Let's make a sweeping, unsupported generalisation that pets are seen as a girls' thing and isn't that awful.

No, I'm not saying that Whirlpool.

I think that all the essential traits of a decent person are within what is defined as femininity.

If masculinity and feminity are socially constructed, we should raise all children to be mostly feminine.

I need to go to bed too

Night.

I want to say more but I need to go to bed. So hopefully I remember it all in the morning. Night all :)

I mean I can see the idea, that feminine is lesser, it was highly enforced in my family.

It doesn't mean that a woman who is more interested in outer space than ponies is a traitor to her sex though surely?

Gah that was to almond. Although Whirlpool makes a good point too.

There is plenty wrong with "femininity". Hyper-masculinity is detrimental, but the traits associate with the masculine are by no means all bad.

I'm getting a bit lost.

Are you saying that if a woman has personality traits that are not in keeping with the "feminine" then she is simply reacting to messages that women = lesser, rather than just being herself?

Oh right I see. I think I've misunderstood, perhaps. That is an interesting and bold proclamation. It's not one I've seen somebody make before, in fact, although I'm inclined to agree if I've understood you correctly (now).

Feminine personality stereotype also encompasses items like:

Vanity
Bitchiness
Disinterest in things like politics, science
etc etc

I was going to say that I don't think that "femininity" encompasses the basics of being a decent human being - both masculine and feminine have aspects which are positive and negative.

Feminists are people like everyone else and can't be labelled as all being X or Y. Saying they all must be X or Y seems wrong to me.

I don't get a sense that anybody is showing off. It's perfectly ordinary that a person conforms to some gender roles or stereotypes but not others, and quite inevitable that that kind of dynamic gets discussed on a thread like this.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any single person who conforms exactly to every stereotype mad about their gender - it's just really unlikely TBH.

I 'm not attacking you personally.

It happens in every discussion of femininity. Femininity is somehow held up to be less, wrong, pretend, fake, inauthentic.

There is nothing wrong with femininity. There is something wrong with masculinity.