Girls and outdoor activities. Where am I going wrong?

Two comments from dd - firstly, how many children are involved and over how long a period, ie, could it just be statistical clustering? Second, do your sessions clash with a local activity that is popular with girls?

I'd have hated this from age 10 or so. I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere and was heartily fed up of the great outdoors. By that age onwards I just wanted to be left alone with a book.

(Lancelottie -me too, it used to be confidence/strength, but now it's more that DH is rubbish crew. DD prefers helming because she likes to be in control! )

Oh Hunger Games would be brilliant. Yes I agree initially it's a bit but there is a Hunger Games mini game for Minecraft so even my 6yo has heard of it, though I wouldn't let him watch the films or read the books, and he doesn't know what the actual story is. He just thinks it's a game where you run around and the last one standing wins.

I find this very interesting. My DD is little but would love it. I suspect that at 12-13 the girls see themselves as too old to be mucking about with 8 yr old boys?

DH helms and I crew. Oops. I like to think that it's because I fit under the boom and he doesn't, but it's not ideal, is it?

'The other thing that occurs to me is that kids are very influenced by the 'is this for people like me?'

That's so true. When reading 'You Choose' DC4 (age 3) think he's only allowed to choose the activities that the boy is doing. He can't be a zookeeper (even though he wants to be) because in the picture the girl is doing it. It's so frustrating!

The other thing that occurs to me is that kids are very influenced by the 'is this for people like me?', and gender is one of the main criteria for deciding who that is. Sailing is often a family activity - too often dad helms, mum crews but at least they're both doing it. Well, thinking about the OP's activities - are they more like things (stereotypically) dads would do or mums would do?

Bother, meant also to say - given that sailing and windsurfing are fairly pricey activities, and the OP seems to be working through youth services and possibly therefore with families who can't afford expensive extracurriculars, there might be a "class"/money thing going on - I've known lots of Brownies and Guides whose families have been very badly off but who've been gung ho for outdoor activities, and tried their very best to kit their girls out, but for example it is not massively surprising that the girls from better off families have more outdoor equipment and more changes of shoes, so are going to enjoy outdoor activities more.

Interesting, as DS has also commented that when he was looking for youth sailing clubs, almost every website showed equal numbers of boys and girls (as far as you could tell beneath all the kit, anyway).

kelp I wonder if the parents of the girls just have a more fixed idea of when the session should end - whether that's specific to those parents (more rigid/less flexibility due to other factors by chance) or is gender-related (less willing to overrun on activities for girls as they are less worth "investing" in) is hard to say.

kelp - my DD is also keen on sailing and windsurfing. The latter was nearly all teenage females last year, despite the fact that it's much more physically taxing than sailing (especially when you're learning). The instructors are all 40-50 ish blokes. I'd have said the girls are actually better at getting down to the rigging and clearup - parents/grandparents are expected to help with this, whether they stay or not (many do, often on the water themselves). So I don't think the factors you've noticed are general rules. Except for the lack of pinkification, of course. (some of our wetsuits have had pink on them - but that didn't stop a younger lad visiting borrowing one of DDs castoffs! )

there is also the celebrity get me out of here angle

This is often popular with Brownie/Guide groups. Some of it is more play-outdoors though (e.g. eating "worms" i.e. cold spaghetti). But you could add that to challenges like building a raft to get you off the island etc.

Rather gobsmacked at the idea of a 'Hunger games' theme.

You might find if you run a girls session, even if you do exactly the same activities and advertise it the same (i.e. it doesn't need to be pink and glittery) you'll get more girls coming.

In fact, if you made it even slightly 'pink and glittery' I'd be pretty sure that you'd put off more girls than you attract. I know that my DD would have been outraged by such a notion (mind you, she's always been perfectly happy in mixed activities anyway).

Actually, I want to go on a Hunger Games theme day now.

The Hunger Games theme is a brilliant idea. You could also do a 'The Maze Runner' type one and focus on the orienteering and geocache. I believe there are three more Maze Runner films being made, so it could stay popular for years.

I don't think the problem is the parents. If it were you'd have the same trouble in the younger group. Parents have less say over the activities their children do as they get older, not more. It doesn't make send that they're sending their little girls and then banning their older girls from going!

It could be a bit of a chicken and egg situation, there are far more boys there and so that gives the impression it's more suited to boys and so girls don't want to come. You might find if you run a girls session, even if you do exactly the same activities and advertise it the same (i.e. it doesn't need to be pink and glittery) you'll get more girls coming.

DS's ballet teacher had a similar problem, boys would come, but then be put off by the number of girls and leave. She started a boys only class and it was full!

I've got 2 boys and a girl. Whilst it was easy to get DD into holiday clubs when she was younger it became increasingly harder to get her involved in things as she got older because of the friendship thing - the boys would happily go off and muck in, but if her couple of close friends weren't there she would feel very left out as girls tend to form these cliques which can be quite off-putting.

I wonder if you could make separate the ages so that the older ones are not lumped in with the younger ones, and if you could make it clear that they would be part of a group as opposed to being left in their own cliques to build fires etc, with support from the leaders at all times?

Do you do themed sessions? I worked for a similar sounding organisation, and our sessions for 7-10 years olds were full, but dropped dramatically after that. We introduced a 'Hunger games' themed session - basically survival skills and archery for that age range, and ended up full with a waiting list.

Hakluyt she has a been wearing a sports bra for a while but I'm going to take her to get fitted for a more supportive one at the weekend, I feel bad at not noticing it wasn't enough, she has quite a lot of pubic hair, and she says when they have to sit with their legs crossed then it's noticible because of the style of shorts they have to wear in PE and the last few months she has also started growing armpit hair. It's hardly noticible but she knows it's there and is worried about it. She hates changing for swimming and PE and tries to do it under a towel when swimming, but for PE she can't so it's making her anxious.

Survival skills - map reading, how to cook on an open fire, that sort of thing. Not everyone has access to brownies/guides? What are the outdoorsy "badges" that are achieved through those movements that could be enhanced?

I appreciate that the parents do the booking but two things I note from your summary - I would have to google geo-caching to know what is was and is your brochure actually easily understood to an 8yr old who is more than capable of asking to do things/stating a preference?

Not all girls, but many are less willing to be cold and wet and "covered" in mud. I think appropriate clothing is an issue depending on where you are in the country. City children particularly girls are far less likely to have proper wellies and waterproofs than more rural children. Lots of exceptions but generally I do note that girls are far more likely to be ferried to school if the weather is bad than the boys are.

I'm not sure if it's a worse suggestion than the "pink" element but there is also the celebrity get me out of here angle. I've never watched it but it seems to have massive appeal. Other than getting locked in glass boxes with creepy crawlies, is there any component of the programme which might appeal to a 13yo? I'm thinking of trips to places with hire wires and that sort of thing? You only have to have one "main attraction" potentially to draw them in for the other elements. ?

I'd love it - and I'd send my girls if they were old enough, they love the woods. 12/13 I recall as being a lot of hanging around listening to music though so I think that's a market segment all on it's own with the DoE skills a possible draw?