The boat race and equality

Ah, sorry, I had my Team GB patriotic hat on. Saudi Arabia is a bit of an outlier though.

Re the boat race, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Put them on first and somebody thinks this reduces them to a warm-up act! Really?

There was a discussion on here about Rugby international fixtures at Twickenham a while back. England women played a fixture directly after England men last winter. The women's team is at least as successful as the men's, probably moreso since 2003. And yet one of the women on here who had attended said that as soon as the final whistle blew for the men's game, thousands of spectators piled out of the stadium. So, a captive audience, who had already paid, and were about to be entertained by a good side, would rather go home, or to the pub. Raising the profile of women's sport in the short term is a tricky problem.

No I assume OP doesn't.

OP is also presumably against weight categories in sports like Boxing.

So do you think women should row competitively or not?

This is 10-15 years ago now

So OP opens with

"How is it equality if women are still not allowed to race together with the men or, even better, take part in the men's team trials and get rid of gender segregation all together by having a single race for everyone? "

And then goes on to say that due to biological differences they don't believe that any women would ever make it to competition, under those circumstances.

ie, the OP's preference is for there to be no women's competition in this event / no women competing at all.

Right then. So far so bog-standard. So what's the point of this thread again?

I have a number of friends who rowed when younger, and a couple got frustrated that once the boys had had their growth spurts the opportunities for the girls diminished in their area

Yy Jeanne. And the attitude to sports starts much younger than the boat race too. I'd be curious to know how many of the men vs women had rowed much before university, or reached a high standard in other sports of strength or endurance, or had selected Oxbridge with the opportunities to row as a primary factor.

It's been a while since I cheered one of "those bumping races" and perhaps things have changed a lot in the intervening years.

What more do you want, women? We let you do your little races and events, and now you want equal recognition, facilities and funding?! Madness! Don't you know there's little point training women or putting money into sports for women because they can never be as "good" as the men!

yops, did you honestly not notice the women from Saudi Arabia?!

That was the most obvious.

The point - which I think is yonic's too if I'm reading rightly - is that you cannot expect the situation to right itself in a day.

The boat race including women on the main course is great. It doesn't wipe out the century before.

Ah, so it is Yonic

the discrepancies between the prestige of women's and men's sports was obvious at the Olympics, too.

I'd say it's one of the few times I can remember when women's sport got fair coverage alongside the men. Certainly from a Team GB perspective. In what respect do you think there was a discrepancy? Less airtime, less focus, less celebration?

AS is your friend, Chopper...

This reads like one of those threads where the OP is here to Shine The Light Of Righteousness On Double-Standards On Mumsnet or similar.

Why do you think?!

I don't see how you can think yonic is saying that.

Women are held back by social influences. That's pretty obvious - the discrepancies between the prestige of women's and men's sports was obvious at the Olympics, too.

To say that is not to negate biological difference, but to explain why it's irrelevant.

Outside of the boat race, which I'd suggest has discrimination problems above and beyond just sexism, British rowing seems to treat men's and women's success equally seriously. There seems to be big investment at the elite level for both. Like the cycling team, I can think of as many famous women as men, and as many medals.

I wasn't a rower. Or rather I was but only at College level.

(Although we also all socialised together and I got off with some of them too. And the coach )

P.S As "dadoftwoyoungkids" was one of the men's varsity team I guess you could say that they were fairly successful at pulling us!

Oh, sure, mum. Not disagreeing - I was just musing as I'm curious about it.

I don't see the problem with what you describe, either (apart from the getting off with rowers. My problem there is envy. )

Women would not get into a mixed boat. The odd woman - every 10 years or so - might get in. But it would not really be a mixed boat. It would be a men's boat. Yes - not all men are 6ft3 but according to my son's red book about 1% are 6ft3 plus. Don't know what proportion of women are from looking at my daughter's book.mbecause it is actually miles off the scale. The scale stops at 0.4% of women are over 5ft 11.

I was on the (women's) varsity team for a sport where women are physiologically less good than men. I might have been able to squeeze onto the men's 4th or 5th team (it's a non contact sport - I grew up playing against lads) but why would I want to. I worked hard enough and made the time sacrifices - pretty big during an Oxbridge degree - to be a Varsity Squad member and that is what I wished to be. We trained alongside the men and socialised with them. We celebrated our victories and commiserated our defeats equally. We did not see the men as superior to us and getting on the men's squad as the "holy grail". We had our own squad. I'm pretty sure they disn't see us as inferior. (Mainly because they were too busy trying to get off with us!)

business, I don't think that's really true in this context - there was only one black woman on either of the women's teams, and I bet rowing isn't the only sport like that.

I don't see how Williams was being 'modest' either - she was simply explaining how the game works.