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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The boat race and equality

141 replies

businesshoursareover · 12/04/2015 11:58

What's your opinion on this?

www.bbc.com/sport/0/rowing/32130222

How is it equality if women are still not allowed to race together with the men or, even better, take part in the men's team trials and get rid of gender segregation all together by having a single race for everyone?

Keeping them separated and having the women's race first as some sort of ''appetizer'' before the men take part in the ''main event'' only helps encourage the stereotype that women are inferior at sports and how they're just ''for the boys''. Hmm

OP posts:
ChopperGordino · 12/04/2015 19:38

I think nodding might be joking Grin

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 12/04/2015 19:35

I have no idea what you are on about nodding. Take a look at equestrian sport, eventing, showjumping etc. Totally level playing field for all.

noddingoff · 12/04/2015 19:33

Actually, I should revise my post. The Grand National is a handicap race, which is contra to the OP's philosophy. There should always be level weights for all, no silly handicaps or conditions races. No handicaps in any golfing competitions or any other sports. I WANT THE BEST TO RULE THEM ALL!!!! ALWAYS, FOR EVER!!!!!

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 12/04/2015 19:32

Nodding, what are you talking about?

Hovis2001 · 12/04/2015 19:22

Maryz

Similar point to my post above - it's not quite the same as having separate categories in an individual swimming race, because the balance of the crew is so important. Having lightweight rowers row alongside heavyweight rowers would mean that none of the crew would end up rowing their best, even if they were all, individually, fantastically fit and talented rowers. Because the 'main' boat race traditionally favours very tall, burly crews, not having a lightweight category would exclude all but a specific physique from being involved.

Hovis2001 · 12/04/2015 19:15

Thanks nodding and Tonic. I could go on all night. Blush

Interestingly in some of the regattas I've been involved in, the winners of the women's races have sometimes clocked the same time if not faster as the winners of the men's races in the same age category. We also have mixed events and often the 'stroke' (leading rower) is a woman.

Maryz · 12/04/2015 19:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 12/04/2015 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noddingoff · 12/04/2015 19:10

Yes nice posts Hovis and Beta...a festival of rowing with different races would be great!

noddingoff · 12/04/2015 19:08

I don't know why they bother having a televised steeplechase event at athletics meetings. Who would want to watch puny humans doing it when horses are much better? They should do away with steeplechase events for humans only and let humans enter the Grand National. After all, once in a while a man beats the leading horse in that Man vs Horse fell running thing so I don't see why humans shouldn't carry 11 stone over 4 1/2 miles and 30 big jumps in the Grand National. If the men are up to beating the horses at that, then I will deign to watch them, otherwise get them off my telly.

YonicScrewdriver · 12/04/2015 19:07

Great post hovis.

Hovis2001 · 12/04/2015 19:04

Men have had their own boat race for almost two hundred years. Why shouldn't women get a race of their own too?

Rowing is a subject close to my heart (though none of this river crap, I row on the sea Grin), so I have a few thoughts about this from a technical / opinionated afficianado POV. Firstly, rowing is above all about the eight rowers working as one machine. You want everyone not only dropping their blades into the water and pulling them out at the same time, you also want them all to be pulling the exact same distance within the water at exactly equal pressures. It is not vital, but very helpful, that the crew be evenly matched in terms of height and therefore reach. If you have a crew of seven tall people and one relatively much shorter person that person is going to have to adapt their stroke, possibly moving forward quicker on the recovery (when the blade is out of the water) to ensure they have the same 'reach' as their crewmates. But this will then mean that they aren't moving in perfect synchronism with their crewmates and will subtly throw off the rhythm of the boat. So, if the boat race was 'genderless', as you say, the crews would probably continue to be very tall people, thus excluding more women than men.

A third, mixed race category would be great, and would probably see smaller/lightweight men getting the chance to row with women of similar sizes etc.

From the point of view of watching the race, I'd also much rather see two or even three races rather than just the one. Different crews of different sizes and genders row very differently - there's more than one way to skin a cat etc! - and I love observing that. You can row with pure weight and strength and move pretty fast, but lighter crews can often be incredibly technically proficient and a real pleasure to watch if a perfect rhythm in a boat is the sort of thing to give you goosebumps. From a rowing fan POV, the more races, the better.

Finally, there is a certain irony to arguing the semantics of 'true equality' w.r.t. the Oxford and Cambridge boat race. Within the context I think bringing the women's race up to the same status is fabulous, but within the wider picture there are other issues to mull over if you want a deep discussion about equal access etc.

YonicScrewdriver · 12/04/2015 19:00

Thank you, Beta.

MoreBeta · 12/04/2015 18:57

Its long overdue that the men and women boat race was on the same day.

Good that the sponsors insisted it happened.

I was a fairly good lightweight male college level rower at Oxford. I occassionally rowed in mixed crews and was coached by he female blue boat rowers in our college. They were miles better technically, fitter, stronger on a weight for weight basis.

The Women's 1s boat was actually so good it routinely beat the
Mens 1st boat in our college. Blush

Women's rowing is just as exciting as Men's rowing. Obviously the very best male rowers are far stronger than he very best female rowers but so what? Women are technically just as good as men and deserve equal sponsorship and equal billing.

Now we need a proper Oxford v Cambridge festival of rowing on the Thames for heavy and light crews and men and women all on one day. Get rid of the stupid long TV build up lets see ALL the crews rowing!

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 12/04/2015 18:28

*men's rights argument. Missed a word Grin

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 12/04/2015 18:27

It is a perennial men's argument.

ChopperGordino · 12/04/2015 18:21

I'm not sure the op is trying to make a particular point that makes sense, just reach a point where he feels he can say HA GOTCHA FEMINISTS

TeiTetua · 12/04/2015 18:01

Well I don't see OP's point. If it's true that women have been eligible for years to vie for selection among the 6-foot-4 gods of rowing, and have always failed, then why ask for anything to change? Maybe he wants to hear a chant of "MEN MEN MEN No Girls Can Make It" during the race.

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 12/04/2015 17:57

Actually op the most equal would be any equestrian sport where there is no women's section at all, no difference in funding based on m/f, no allowences for being "weak", no segregation at all. Yet it attracts little notice and almost no support outside the equestrian world. Perhaps turning attention to raising the profile of the only truly equal sport, increasing tv coverage etc would be a better way to promote equality rather than splitting hairs over the advances that are made in other sports?

FloraFox · 12/04/2015 17:44

Amother I think that's what the OP's getting at. Cos that would be equality Hmm

YonicScrewdriver · 12/04/2015 17:38

Isn't the very essence of the Boat Race how closely matched the teams are? I'm sure they do cover how the times stacked up against previous years but the main interest is not how fast it's rowed but how close it is over the line?

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 12/04/2015 17:34

OP

If rowing selection was as you advocate, no women would be in rowing other than coxing. Height and long levers are what count in rowing and you don't get lots of 6 foot 6 women (granted the stroke of the Oxford ladies is 6 foot 3, but all the others were under six feet and most male rowers are 6 feet 3 minimum)

YonicScrewdriver · 12/04/2015 17:34

Thanks Koala.

Koalafications · 12/04/2015 17:31

Fucking hell, the FWR topic seems to attract a lot of wankers.

Star for all the regulars who have to deal with these posters daily.

ChopperGordino · 12/04/2015 17:25

Well it's just not worth your time unless you are watching The Best* in the One Race To Rule Them All (presumably you can then die happy)

*as defined by the OP