'Sussex Police is taking an innovative approach' to their new Rape awareness campaign

so Cailindana, do you think that EVERY SINGLE rape in the whole world could not have been avoided if someone had changed their actions.

Whether reminding people to keep an eye out for their friends saves one person from being raped, isnt it worth it?

I just don't get the point of poster campaigns like this. Why tell women they must do something to prevent a crime committed by other people?

What normal person doesn't look out for their friends Just? Are you saying that unless a poster specifically tells women to look after each other they're just going to ignore each other? Friends look after each other, that's just normal behaviour. But telling women they can prevent sexual assault as though that's their duty is bollocks. The only thing that can prevent sexual assault is if men stop doing it. I cannot control someone else's behaviour no matter how vigilant or "good" or not drunk I am. To believe you can control someone else's behaviour, someone you don't know, someone you have no idea is out to hurt you is just utter madness.

cailindana - you carry on telling your young girls not to take care when they're out as nothing they can do can make any difference as they have not control

i however care about the people in my life and will teach them to look out for themselves and each other

I think why people like Dragon bang on endlessly about "reducing risks" and "sensible advice" is because of fear. It's hard to accept that if someone wants to rape you, they will probably rape you and in fact you're far more likely to get raped at home in your own bed than anywhere else. So they believe that restricting women, making them afraid, telling them to watch out, will actually help, it's sort of magical thinking that reassures people that they can prevent the actions of another person.

Let Dragon have her beliefs. She thinks that by telling young girls they need to be wary and cautious and not fully enjoy their nights out that she's helping. She's not, but hey, no one's going to tell her any different. I hope she can carry on believing these things for the rest of her life - that she doesn't suddenly learn the hard way that believing these things makes absolutely no difference.

*you cannot help but think "why did they walk there alone?"

I can honestly say that I have never thought that after hearing someone has been mugged*

Me neither. And my "Rolex man" example was from real life. He wasn't actually wearing a Rolex but was mugged when drunk. The response was it was worse to attack him when he had no chance of defending himself,not that he brought it on himself.

I think the more society accepts victim blaming in everyday conversation the more we normalise it and this makes it easier for men to rape and for the rest of society to come up with excuses for them.

I love the blokes poster. I really do think there is something in encouraging men/women/people in social groups to look at each others behaviour and question it. So much 'banter' is actually victim blaming or aggressive and contributes to the attitude of 'just lads being lads' or 'he got confused' or 'it was there for the taking' (similar to your postings, Dragon). If we - all people - challenged this on a daily basis, rapists would be more afraid to rape - more afraid their attitudes to women had been noticed, that their mates might believe the victim, afraid that the police will see through their bullshit.

Because this poster is about fear. And fear should lie with the rapist, not the victim.

"But how do you tell the difference between sensible self care and victim blaming advice? "

I think you have beautifully summed this up in one sentence.
Victim blaming advice for me is "dont wear a short skirt as you might get raped"

sensible self care for me is " dont walk down a dark alley, especially if you are drunk or otherwise not fully functional, as you might get attacked"

I don't see how this poster would help, even if you ignore all the victim-blaming. When I used to have a social life, we went out as a mixed group, and we'd walk back from town, sometimes going back to someone's house, other times becoming a smaller group as we passed people's homes and they went in. Sometimes people paired off, or you might end up as the single woman with a couple of men, just because of the geography of where we all lived. But it was okay, because we were all friends and looking out for each other.

And in my case, it was okay, but unfortunately for some women, that's exactly the situation where they're at most risk, because you're more at risk of being raped by someone you know.

The same level of blame towards the victim and excusing rapists actions is not applied to victims of mugging and the perpetrators. If it were then there would be threads and threads about it on MN, a bit like this one.

by saying this doesnt lessen the behaviour of the rapist or make it any less horrific, and thats what i feel a lot of people are saying, that if some/any of the 'guilt' is on the victim or their friends, then its less on the attacker. There shouldn't be any level of guilt on the victim. The fact you are attributing that does lessen the guilt of the attacker.

Responsibility for a crime is a finite thing i.e. the total of responsibility will equal 100%. You can't have the perpetrators completely responsible and the victims a little bit responsible. Either the perpetrators are wholly responsible or responsibility is shared somehow between perpetrator and victim (even if that were 90%:10% for example. It still has to add up to 100). So yes saying a victim should feel guilt or be responsible in any way does take away from the responsibility of the attacker.

But there aren't any campaigns telling people not to walk home alone in fear of being mugged Dragon.

Why is it specifically not safe for women to go home alone? As one of the responses to the poster says: "Are the men in Sussex really that dangerous? What are the police doing about this?"

you cannot help but think "why did they walk there alone?"

I can honestly say that I have never thought that after hearing someone has been mugged.

the problem is that you are looking at this campaign in the wrong way

I have a feeling that we aren't the ones who are looking at the campaign in the wrong way...

no no no " Because those arseholes, thanks to a campaign by Sussex Police, might think it ISN'T their fault," the problem is that you are looking at this campaign in the wrong way, no one is even hinting that this is NOT the rapists fault, what they are saying is there are steps we can take to avoid SOME, not all attacks, rapes or otherwise

take the rape out of the conversation as rape makes everyone have a red haze, and make it a mugging, no one ever blames the victim of the mugging, but we all know that there are areas its not safe to walk alone, and when you hear someone has been mugged because they walked there alone you cannot help but think "why did they walk there alone?"

Apologies for initial link fail.

m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32217249

[http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32217249]

Great post gin. There was an article on the bbc website about schools starting to teach consent lessons as part of pshe, will see if I can find it and post a link.