Dropping the wifework

Realisations like this are painful! Examining one's own actions is hard. I work ft, DH and I earn exactly the same. We split childcare and cleaning etc. I was brought up by a feminist single mother. I still feel guilty every time I have a lie in or go out on my own at the weekend and I have to stop myself from micromanaging him with the children (he doesn't need it). Conditioning runs deep!

Mamadoc, the description of the girls cooing for the boys in your houses shows where you picked stuff up. Just don't do it, I expect it is harder as you have started out so much, but as you are the breadwinner. I would just put my foot down, and say I haven't got time to be worried about world book day

I do the bulk of household management tasks. I'm a SAHM right now, but would still be doing the 'wifework' if I was working FT. DH is in one of those professions which rely on employees either being single (and not having much of a life), or having a partner to sort out family life. He's away a lot, often at short notice, from days to months at a time. Obviously I have to take care of everything while he's away, and I think it's too disruptive for everyone if he temporarily takes over the wifework while he's home again.

I rebel where I can . I don't iron. When he's home, I'll wash his work clothes if I'm doing a load, but making sure he has everything ready for work is his responsibility. I consider contact with his family to be primarily his responsibility (I suspect his in laws blame me for the lack of cards, etc.) I'd never dream of packing a suitcase for him. When he is home in the evening/ on the weekend, what's left of the housework is a joint responsibility, and childcare duties default to him as far as possible.

DH does do nearly all the cooking when he's home, despite the insistence of many MNers that this is a SAHP job. He's always been the 'default cook.' I still do the meal planning though, and we're expecting his hours to change next year, so I'll have to take over the cooking when that happens.

The first cleaner I had was a man. I don't have one at the moment but really should get one. It was difficult when we had a much loved but blind, senile and incontinent cat. I couldn't really expect a cleaner to clean up around him if he had an accident.

mamadoc a cleaner won't judge you for having an untidy house but unless you're willing to pay enough hours for him/her to tidy up and clean it won't work. They will use up cleaning time doing tidying so that they get to the bits that need cleaning.

A compromise might be to get cleaner to do bathroom, kitchen, hall and public rooms but not bedrooms. You can quickly "tidy up" before they come by throwing everything into a bedroom.

Yes we do get it. I have begun to suspect that more women in RL get it than let on, perhaps because they fear their own or partners' anger, or the negativity women who challenge things get.

Baby ganoush, fair point about low-paid "women's" occupations, but dispute the idea that not wanting to chat for 20mins and listen to her woes would mean not treating her as human!

I'm so surprised you did those things in the first place! Particularly buying his Mother's Day gifts and packing for him. When did it all start? What made you do it the first time?
It's great you've stopped though.

and a cleaner is not a fairy who calmly leaves your house wonderful and fresh.

I have a lovely one now, if she comes (if something need s sorting/cleaning, a man thinks: "must find me a woman to do this", sad then that a woman also thinks:"must find me a (cleaning) woman to do this". ironic in a way. Cleaning and boring shit = women's task) but she is often unwell, has a complicated life, needs to talk about this complicated life for at least 15-20 minutes when she comes. Cuppa here, cuppa there. I cannot just treat her like a robot. Sometimes it is easier if she doesn't come.

That is the reality of it.

Thanks BFP and all on the thread. It is good to feel someone else gets it.

mamadoc, yes, I know!

Bloody book day costumes, red nose day now is costume too. ALWAYS the mums job

as is (in our house)

• ferrying dc to birthday parties/friends
• buying presents for parties
• organising own kids' parties, invites, cake, part bags etc.
• organising any outing
• being responsible for every single meal
• being responsible for the kids getting any vitamins (if I am out they are straight to McD, easy option for DH)
• remembering bin day
• remembering dentist/opticians/hayfever meds
• doing ALL school forms ( about 2 per kid per week on fuck knows what)

the thing that bugs me is that I do all the lifework, but ALSO am responsible for insurance, car maintenance, garden work and DIY.

DH is "modern" as in not doing stereotypical "men's work", but neither does he cook or shop.

So he works 9-5, and everything else is my responsibility. And it grates at times!!!

and the sad thing is I am a highly educated woman.

But I guess I have mainly myself to blame, as I signed up to be main carer for kids and drop work.

I think how many tasks become wifework after children is because, if you are at home, even for a short time, it is easy to take on things to fill your time/free the weekend. So many tasks are interdependent that It is easier to do/plan/buy this so that now you can do that, which leads to the other. Before you know it, even if things were well divided, you have taken over much so you don't have to wait until he has time. The longer you are at home, the more tasks you take over. In most cases, the out of the house working parent may not notice, others may take advantage and actively delay or ignore tasks you didnt intend to do, until you take them on by default, and in still others, they give up trying to keep ahead of the at home parent.

I probably should get a cleaner. I expect we could afford it.
I actually don't mind cleaning. I find it quite satisfying.
I hate tidying much, much more. Our house is often pretty messy and I have always worried that a cleaner would judge that.

It might help a bit but guess who would be sourcing the cleaner, arranging, managing, paying....

What I really would like is to not feel ultimately responsible for all things domestic. I wish I had a home PA.

DH has argued a couple of times that I should do more at home because I work shorter hours (he works FT++) and have limited prospects to earn as much (same "level" of jobs but different sectors and my unwillingness to work long hours). He works in a male-dominated field and team where long hours are the norm. Most of his fellow employees with children have wives who don't work.

I know lots of other women in a similar situation. to be fair to my DH he does the most at home of the men, and far more with the DC, he's doing some flexible working after a lot of negativity from his employer, turns down work travel and does not have more leisure time than me. That doesn't excuse the shitty argument though!

we see it, mamadoc

mamadoc, any chance of you getting a cleaner? This has really helped me.

In your example of the bathroom at weekends you are getting the bum deal: your H is doing stuff with the DC and you are doing drudge cleaning!

I've been noticing and feeling frustrated about it for a while and I have not found many people who understand. Hence compulsion to share on mumsnet.

People of my mum's generation think that he does quite enough (unsaid...for a man)
Many of my friends are either SAHM or the lower earner/ more part time person so they accept that it is right for their DH to do less and don't have a problem with it.
A lot of my colleagues are male and similarly blind to any issue. They feel that they do plenty at home too (but would be non-plussed at the concept of having to make a book day costume)
My older female colleagues feel the same as my mum that I have it far better than they ever did (likely very true)

I often feel that I must be mad as no-one else sees a problem that I do.

We are younger outs. I don't feel any pressure. Dh gets blamed if he forgets stuff. He did forget non-uniform day once and dd came home and said daaaddd. I also blamed him. It wasn't my fault, and he apologised to all involved.

I have a long commute, so dh does more of the stuff during the week. It used to be the other way round.

But my personal arrangements don't mirror society at large , do they? Where, from reading the boards here, the woman is often taking on the lions share of all that wife work. Isn't that the point. And that is a feminist issue.

Thank you for posting the thread monkey. I think this is an entirely appropriate place to have posted it, and have found it interesting.

Thanks for your honesty on this thread mamadoc. It's been really interesting to read people's experiences of being lumbered with 'wifework'. I really empathise with what you said about your DH doing a lot compared to what society expects. I think my DH is very much like that. I think he would say he does 50% of household stuff but really he only does 50% of the obvious stuff like cooking/cleaning. And maybe not even that! When I ask him to do more he looks at me like I'm mad. I think if I made a list of all the things I do and asked to split it equally his head would explode.

If I pointed out to my husband that we had unequal leisure time - and it was making me unhappy - and he did not change I would leave him. I would hope that this came to light earlier in our relationship so that rather than leaving him, I would never have settled.

My DP is the SAH parent and he has not automatically defaulted to doing the wife work, which to my mind isn't housework per set but is the stuff that facilitates family life. He does benefit from comparison with most of the other dads we know but he's not that brilliant when compared with the other wives. Stuff like bills, insurance, hospital and dental appointments, buying gifts he just doesn't think about. Obviously I have pointed this out to him, and he says he is willing to do them but with the usual frustrating proviso that I tell him or how would he know? To me though, that I'm not his (fucking) PA is precisely my point.

I try to deal with this on an issue by issue basis. Only last week, though, a letter came addressed to our 22mo and he left it unopened for me so I questioned this. However, he's taken the DC for their recent immunisations, and organised birthday gifts for friends' DC recently. He also instantly recognises that they ate his responsibilities, he doesn't ask "what are we doing about this?" in that insidious way named by PP

I regard myself as a feminist and my DP as an ally but really feel that the depth of our conditioning isn't erased by reading a couple of books together and agreeing. It's work that we both have to do but I regard it as a form of activism because of the way it is normalises equal contributions to the household for our DC but also for the community we are part of.

We are late 30s/ early 40s. I was wondering how much this was a factor?

Philoslothy I don't think it is as overt as him stating that he deserves more leisure time than me. That would be outrageous. It is more that he does not notice the imbalance and he finds it hard to accept when I point it out as pretty much the whole rest of the world thinks he does more than expected.

How it happens practically is eg 3 afternoons I do pick up and 2 afternoons he does. On my afternoons I will usually manage to stick a wash on or put the Hoover round or ring up to make appointments, do banking. On his afternoons he does not think to do any of these 'extra' things.

At weekends whilst I am cleaning the bathroom (a task I think even he will admit he does not do) he is rarely doing nothing he is often playing with or at least supervising the DC or he might work as he is self employed.

It's kind of subtle. Many of my friends DHs do indeed do less and are off on long cycle rides or playing or watching football at weekends. I think it's rare that a woman takes every Sat am off