Transgender kids article in today's Guardian

What does "living as a woman full-time" mean, though?

Two very interesting articles above, but I still have to agree with ApocalypseThen.

It makes me feel that, if I had been born today, then there is a strong chance that I would have missed out on having the relationship and family that I now have. By my late teens / early twenties, I came to accept that I was simply a crossdresser. I enjoyed (and still enjoy) crossdressing, but there was no way that I wanted surgery or to live as a woman full-time. Those early years were tough with feelings of not fitting in and that maybe you were not a real boy, but it's all part of finding yourself and developing as a person.

As it is, I have a wonderful wife and three amazing children. I can also be "Rachel" pretty well whenever I like and life is good. It just took time to develop.

It's that bit "preoccupied with things normally associated with girls" that gets me. If we truly wanted children to be themselves we'd let them be boys with interests in things society arbitrarily labels as for girls, and we'd stop stressing about it. How far does this go? Women interested in STEM subjects are actually trans? At what point is the cross over?

^He was three and in a toy shop and he wanted a Barbie doll. Back then I did say, 'that's what girls play with - let's go and look at the trucks and cars'. But he was always drawn towards everything girly. Aged two and three he always wanted dolls, pink glittery things, princess stuff.
"As a parent that's confusing. You do think - how do we deal with this? What do you do in a shoe shop when your boy wants girls' shoes? Back then I was embarrassed and tried to steer her away to buy something else instead^

Sigh

Wait, there's more:
www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32037397

I saw this on Twitter today, and it kind of sums up.my thoughts (better than I can vocalise them at any rate)

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/samantha-rea/transgender-kids_b_7023466.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

And what if you block a child's puberty and they decide that they're happy the sex they were born? I would struggle to answer for my actions if my child were to find in later life that their fertility was reduced and they were not finding it easy to establish a much wanted family as a result of a fairly normal phase. How could you, in all serous responsibility, make a decision for someone else's body and future?

I don't want my DS to take steroids nor do I want my DD to use hormonal contraception if possible. It's appalling that children's health and fertility are being so glibly discarded. What studies have been done on the long term health impacts of such fundamental interference with children's hormones?

I fully understand the process Tibbysmum, and only meant that maybe Nature should be allowed to take it's course.

It isn't by any means 'now' it takes bloody years and the puberty blockers give time before any decisions are made.

I think it's just maybe a step too far. I'm totally in favour of the freedom of choice, but I just feel that these youngsters are to young to make such incredibly far-reaching decisions. I totally support the parents for wanting the best for their children too, but it all just seems very "now", or black and white. Nature just isn't like that.

It bothers me too. I'm a lesbian and have no desire whatsoever to be a straight transman. I used to know quite a few camp drag queens and never got the impression that any of them wanted to become female. All this is worrying.

That really worries me too, Rachel. I don't see any reason for anyone not to cross dress (actually, I don't accept men's clothes:women's clothes anyway) if they enjoy it. But the actions taken by these parents seem to me to be most extreme and premature.

Why not let people just do what they want without such drastic action?

Avery interesting topic and some equally interesting views.

My only concern regarding the children, is whether or not they can truly say that have been born into the wrong body at such a young age. I fully accept that doctors and specialist psychiatrists are there to help, and that any drugs prescribed to them are to help down-the-line with any transition, but I can only speak from my own experience.

I am a happily married crossdresser who, as a child in the '60s / '70s, used to love dressing in my sisters clothes and pretending to be a girl. My mother used to go a long with it, but my ex-military father was horrified. I loved it. Although I couldn't dress like this all the time, I wished that I could and my father was always telling me to "harden-up" and not to be a "poof".

Having read the article, I'm wondering whether this would be different if I had been a child today. The world is far more enlightened and maybe my love of dresses and playing with my sisters friends would now be accepted. Indeed, I might have been considered trans-gender.

My point is though, by the time I reached puberty, although I still loved wearing dresses I was perfectly happy as a boy. I had girlfriends and did everything that boys do. Yes, I had another "side", but not one that needed any gender re-assignment. Today, I have a happy and loving family, and "Rachel" has a fun and happy life too.

I'm just a little concerned that these youngsters are making / having decisions made for them a little too soon.

To clarify: obviously I don't think parents are consciously identifying gay children and pushing them into some kind of more-acceptable transexuality in the US/UK. But I do fear that by using non-conformity to gender stereotypes as a yardstick for assessing gender dysphoria we risk pushing gay and straight children who don't happen to identify with these stereotypes into conceptualising themselves as transexual.

I think the example of Iran is interesting. The reason there are so many sex changes in Iran is, presumably, because homosexuality is punished by death. Those who are attracted to the same sex as themselves are therefore encouraged into having surgery in order to be able to act on their sexual preferences. I do not think this is the road we should be heading down WRT "transgender" children!

I want to ask how is gender dysphoria different to species dysphoria? If a person truly believes they are a horse trapped in a human body should they be legally treated as a horse? surely both are pyschological disorders that need to be addressed by treatment, or allowed as expressions of cultural diversity, not "fixed" by legislation proclaiming that one type of animal is actually another type?

I suspect that in a few decades time the current practices of addressing gender dysphoria will be seen as at best misguided and at worst barbaric.

interesting guest blog post today

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2350412-Guest-post-My-little-boy-is-a-gorgeous-sparkling-Lady-Gaga-and-he-already-feels-judged

So... DD (9) who measures 144 cm is a woman if she stuffs a bra with some cotton, puts on some heels and make-up? If not, why not?

Better yet - I put on a tiger costume and growl for a couple of months and now I am a tiger?

Who beyond the age of 3 believes that there is no difference between looking & acting like something and being that something?

Yes. Total gender essentialism. It's like 2nd wave feminism never happened.

Yep. That's about the face of it. Crazy.

"Living in the other gender" is enough to be formally and legally recognised as being that other gender? That sounds nuts.

It also sounds like they are saying that a woman is anyone who acts like a woman. I can only guess that they they are referring to putting on a dress and make-up every day and hiding the Adam's apple with a scarf.

Widow, relax, that was intended as light-hearted. I have no intention of harassing anyone (who doesn't harass me first). Should have added a smiley face, sorry.

Cote, this is the law on the recognition certs www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/1 It looks like penised people can apply for one.

Thanks for that explanation, Gibbering. I asked about the situation in the UK because in France, people need to have undergone an "irreversible sex change operation" in order to have a paper saying they are of a different sex than the one they were born with. See here if you read French.

That means a big hairy man with a functional penis between his legs who thinks he is a woman does not get the state's approval of what is so far only in his head and waltz into women's areas. By the time a transwoman is allowed into these areas, she is as much (and arguably even more) in danger from men as women.

It's a myth that women are harassing "women" who don't look feminine enough. Many transwomen don't pass at all and most transwomen still have a penis. The recent situation in the US gym where the woman was barred for commenting on an obvious man who described himself on social media as a "male slut" in the women's changing room to hang up a bag.