Transgender kids article in today's Guardian

Ok I wasn't going to come back for another pasting but here goes. I am not as well read in feminist ideology as clearly many of you are, but I do consider myself a feminist, but in addition I am someone who tries hard to see others points of view and agree to disagree if I can't accept it.

My son feels just that he is my son, it is not just the physical differences, it is the dysphoria, the constant use of female prounouns, the lack of self esteem as a female (for him) the feeling wrong all the time, the constant reminder of a good set of boobs that increased his self loathing that no amount of counselling would help him cope with .

You all seem obsessed with the surgical / medical aspect of this condition, as if he or any trans person would leap straight into this without major counselling & psycho analysis to make sure it is the right thing for them. If along the way up to that point he changes his mind no one would be happier than I, but it seems unlikely.

Just because you don't understand it why must you attack it? If a disabled, or gay person made choices you didn't understand or support and was harangued in the way trans people are on MN you'd be barred.

I respect your right to disagree with me but you have no right to pick apart so viciously my "wrong"(in your far from humble opinions) terminology, and treat me as an abusive mother who is virtually experimenting on her child.
Especially when I am using medically accepted terms used by experts in their field.

Law and order svu is about trans teens today. It'll be interesting to see what approach such a mainstream programme takes, albeit one that i find sometimes engages in quite an interesting way with the subjects it deals with.

No it isn't picking apart language to ask what feeling and behaving like a man means.
Talking about girls acting and thinking "like boys" just seem sexist to me.
What sort of feelings and behaviours makes you a man?

Ditto - it's the transactivists behaviour that has shocked me into thinking this through more clearly. Here's another blog post from Gia (who turns out to be Brian Coxs wife - so Brian Cox is evidently now being labelled as TERF by some trans activists because he's married to her - bonkers) giaqualia.wordpress.com/2015/03/10/controversy/

She also came to awareness about this by seeing trans activists attack friends online ....

Cats that's a great letter. I used to be wishy washy about this too until I got my thoughts straight and ironically it's the trans activists who have pushed this process with a lot of feminists.

Interesting blog post that encapsulates the issues well I think giaqualia.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/doctor-christian/

A few years ago I was a wispy washy liberal feminist who had no idea about the deeper implications of the trans movements attempts to redefine me. Through encountering this on FWR in MN I have read more widely and am horrified at the unintended consequences - not only of accepting transwomen as women but of the catch all definition of what it is to be a transwomen.

"This is what so many of us find difficult, what feeling/thinking like a woman means, when we can't describe it ourselves."

Exactly. Also, how someone who has been born male and socialized as a man all his life would know what "feeling like a woman" would feel like, even if there was such a thing.

And I don't believe the solution to a small child's problem with gender roles or feelings of unease with his body is to block puberty.

Would anyone care to comment on the link I provided and everyone ignores that shows a lifetime FtM now feels OK with being female after taking birth control pills and wonders if her previous feelings were because her body was just low on oestrogen?

"ideology of gender which denies Trans peoples actual experience, or not."

I have opinions, not an ideology. And I don't deny transpeople's thoughts, feelings, and experiences. I just don't believe the optimum solution to the problem of someone having a psychological issue with a perfectly normal and functional body part is cutting it off, be it a leg or a penis.

yes, the thinks/feels/responds as a man is the issue for me - I do all of that, but I'm a woman, I spent years growing up having short hair, having body issues, having interests and strengths that were very traditional male, but it was just fairly normal teenage angst - I'm now a grown woman with kids, who has longer hair because it can be put in a pony tail, doesn't even own a dress and works in a male dominated profession, I'm the one that does the DIY, has the practical STEM skills in our family, but I'm still a woman.

This is what so many of us find difficult, what feeling/thinking like a woman means, when we can't describe it ourselves.

tibbysmum I was not "picking apart language ". There was no need for your snippy reply. I'm trying to understand but I really don't understand what ", he feels, behaves,thinks,responds as a boy/man" means.

Feminist.

Just so you know, you're not going to be banned for being hard of thinking. That's not contrary to the rules.

Meddaio can confirm that the trans notion of gender fits into MRA ideology.

some are, some aren't meddaio.

Feminists are TERFs as well as SWERFs are they not

"Transgenders"?

That depends meddaio, if you are stuck in some ancient second wave terf ideology of gender which denies Trans peoples actual experience, or not.

I get the impression feminists don't like transgenders very much?

Sorry but the 'thinks, feels, behaves as a boy /man' concept is highly problematic. It is used to shut down discussion because it's essentially unproveable but equally it makes massive assumptions about sex and gender that are simply not fact.

Floundering You would weigh up the previous history, the risks of the pill vs the risks of her getting pregnant Interesting you didn't mention other forms of contraception.

If your child is in psychological distress, it's natural to want to help them. Lots of parents find themselves in that situation and have to make decisions between various bad options to do what they think is best for their children.

However, when you talk about female being the "gender assigned to him at birth" this is not true and you are making statements about all women. If you said you decided to acknowledge your child's feelings of anorexia because you were concerned about a suicide risk that would be one thing but then to say that anyone over six stone is fat would be quite another.

"feels, behaves, thinks responds as a boy/man" includes massive assumptions about how men feel etc. and how women feel etc. which are largely derived from sexist notions about biological essentialism, female/male brain etc. that affect us all.

StillLost - it seems the only people who will understand are those who want to, or those who live with (or are) Trans people.
Picking apart someone's language when they have tried to explain something perfectly well is not helpful.

, he feels, behaves,thinks,responds as a boy/man

Floundering, don't take this the wrong way- but what do you and he mean by this? This is the part I don't understand.