Is pubic hair a feminist issue?

Yes I know. Again, I'm sorry if my point hasn't been put across too well it might work better if you read it in the context of my other posts. About how we should have the choice. How we should be able to do what we wish without judgement, not 'men are allowed to do it so you should do it otherwise you're a bad feminist'.

I think that noting that men have a wider range of (genuine, free, easy) choices in some (many) areas especially when you take a global view is important.

I don't think the idea is that we should copy them though, the idea is that it would be nice if women had the same range of choices (free easy genuine) etc even if actually lots wouldn't exercise it.

Of course men are restricted in other different ways, which people do like to mention when restrictions on women are talked about.

I suppose it's like. Work. Now women are becoming more common at higher levels in lots of industries. It's not that they weren't allowed to before (in more recent history) but there were other barriers. Now those barriers are going and so it doesn't take a singularly brave, strong, single-minded woman to do it, it's more accessible to more women, and so more women do it, and things continue in a virtuous circle.

On a more minor note, if more women went out with hairy legs in summer, I'd feel more comfortable not shaving, and I suspect other women would start to give it a miss as well. Which would be good. probably lots would still choose to, but it wouldn't be really really unusual not to IYSWIM. I would like that. Although I might still shave them sometimes anyway.

Sorry I;m on stream of consciousness posting mode tongiht!

Not 'act' like men, no.

But being judged by a more exacting standard than men? Yes, that's a feminist issue (could relate to, say, the stud/slag double standard as well)

We're not fighting to be like men. We're fighting to be treating in an equal way as men.

No that's not what I meant.

I meant the insinuation that to show we're equal we must act like men.

That isn't equality.

Er. Yes. That is what it's all about gray. Equality.

I think I sort of dislike the continuous comparison to what males do and just because they do it we should as though to show we're equal.

That isn't what we're about surely?

Well said Turn It In

I do think there are actions that are feminist though, but that they aren't necessarily undertaken by people who identify as feminists.

So like, signing a petition about abortion rights is a feminist action, and lots of people do that, whether they identify as feminists or not.

Feminism is of course, at its very root, about giving us all choices. The same choices that men have as a matter of course.

Men can choose to be hairy - there's no judgement made, there are no Daily Mail articles written about a man with hairy armpits.

Women cannot make this choice without belittment, judgement and general derision.

Let's be honest here, hair, be it pubic, body or head is a definite feminist issue and one that is immensely hard to kick against in everyday life.

Yes I get that Grays.

I was going to write a whole load of stuff but I got a bit bogged down (around people on the feminist boards aren't always feminists but then who am I to judge their feminism and arrrghhhh) so I stopped.

Feminism is about equality. It's about women being free to make their own choices about their lives and not being controlled by what men want from them.
There is little point in removing men's authority over women for it to be replaced by feminist's authority over women.
No there isn't a feminist way to behave. Women should be free to make their own choices without being pressured to conform.

I agree pilchards

But at the same time I don't like being condemned and questioned about my choices. We can do what you've said, we can investigate why without questioning the choices of others and belittling them. This isn't aimed at anyone here by the way, it's comments I've received on this site before in the name of feminism.

"I don't disagree that it is a feminist issue, but I think the notion that there is a feminist way to behave, is equally as bad for women as life before feminism."

Not as bad, no - marital rape, the vote, keeping your job on marriage and all that jazz.

Anyhow...

There was a thread about what consensual behaviours would be inconsistent with feminism - it was started by a troll but nonetheless got some good replies! On the whole, they were things like picketing abortion clinics, colluding in FGM, being a pimp etc i.e. activities that actively harmed other individual women.

I think some choices are more supportive of the liberation of women as a class than others, sure. But the red line issues are the ones above.

What Tondelayo said.
Except for the day of the week, though

I shave my legs (I will freely admit) because I was conditioned into thinking it was what grown women did. I do not shave them in the winter (and they are seriously hairy). I shave my pits because they get mingy otherwise (don't know why, DH's don't). I have arm fur: if it was dark, I'd succumb to the whole social set-up and wax it. I think I'd be too self-conscious to leave it.

I was horrified when I was in my early 20s and realised that my mother must have had the full shave to give birth to me in the 60s: it sounded like total barbarism and I was relieved to find things had moved on since. I'd never, ever, shave my bush: I like it. It's part of being an adult, like having boobs.

I think there is a feminist way to behave - support and promote other women & girls, avoid doing harm to other women & girls, identify and call out sexism, campaign for equality. I don't think the presence of body hair is mandatory.

It's not about individuals having to justify anything no totally not.

But the massive increase in the last few decades bears looking at. Why the change, what drove it, who benefits, will fashion go backwards or is this with us forever, what is the next thing, is any of this stuff good for society / women as a whole, does it matter etc etc etc

Grooming is for sure a feminist issue and a society issue as well really. Different standards of appearance, dress codes, pressure to conform etc etc. All interesting stuff.

Clearly women are the "ornamental" sex the world over, which is a fundamental problem isn't it. All of this feeds out from there.

I don't think there is, when it comes down to something like this. Surely feminism is about women being able to make choices like this without judgement or having to justify such choices?

I do think that women not engaging with all the "stuff" - just not doing it - whether for feminist reasons or not - and only if they feel comfortable with it obv - does help reduce the pressure across the board though.

So while doing it (whatever "it" is) needn't mean you have to have your feminist card taken away, not doing it is for sure a feminist action (even if it's not intended to be, I guess).

"I don't disagree that it is a feminist issue, but I think the notion that there is a feminist way to behave, is equally as bad for women as life before feminism"

So- do you think there isn't a feminist way to behave?

Yonic, it is a current fashion. That undoubtedly puts pressure on some women, as it also does some men. But that doesn't mean that all women who do it feel any pressure to conform and it doesn't mean that women are somehow wrong or should be criticised for their choices.

I don't disagree that it is a feminist issue, but I think the notion that there is a feminist way to behave, is equally as bad for women as life before feminism.

I shave my armpits because it helps me not to have BO. That is not because of what men think but because I don't like BO. Rarely shave my legs because I can't be bothered. Don't shave my pubic hair for the same reason. Too much fuss about what grows naturally.

Why would I teach my children that what really matters is personality, empathy, sympathy, kindness, then concentrate a lot of effort on looking right?

I know men wouldn't like my hairy legs and pubic area but I don't care. I am too busy having a good life and a great deal of fun to give much thought to them.

Really kinds looks like a bloke to me... It's possible I have a one track mind.

If it's just me that can see that I'm going to need to go and hide somewhere

I don't think there's much to be gained in criticising individuals for personal grooming decisions, whatever they may be. Doesn't mean it's not worth discussing the topic in general.

Na, it's a lady. That's how much we've been brainwashed - hair = masculine.