When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

lego - if the issue here is violence, then what exactly is the point of "equality"? Would you say feminism has done its job if men and women were violent to each other in equal measure? If violence towards men and towards women stem from wildly differing attitudes and root causes, how is equality a solution? The scarcity of resources for victims of DV is an enormous problem, but it's not one that we can solve by forcing women's organizations to share their resources with organizations that support men. That isn't equality, it's just a re-distribution of inequality.

op, i completely agree
some men completely refuse to acknowledge that violence against women is a problem. in their eyes, the bigger problem is that refuges are full of women lying to make their exes look bad. I have read that on another forum from an arsehold of a 'man'.

lego - both situations in the video you are describing (I assume you mean the #violenceisviolence video created and circulated by mankind) are examples of partiarchal attitudes: i.e. women need protecting and men can only be the perpetrators, never the victims of violence. Neither of them show domestic violence, which is generally private and hidden. And there is reason to believe that the video is a result of careful and selective editing, see wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/30/is-the-mankind-initiatives-violenceisviolence-video-a-fraud/

Well if you don't accept that men have privilege and in order to have equality with women they will have to lose some of that privilege then you are never going to get feminism (or any other social injustice movements as they all recognise privilege in its various guises).

I don't like what other men tell me feminism is about.

This is interesting, Breaking. Can you say (in general terms, heh) what they tell you it's about?

Ihatelego, apart from feminists, who else do you think should be building DV shelters for men?

I will happily sign any petition etc that you have started or that you know of.

If you see these sweeping generalisations made in general terms, lego, there's no issue. We can say "men do X and don't do Y" exactly as we can say "roses flower in the summer." Not all men/roses follow this pattern by default, and some people/gardeners have individual skills to alter the default. The statements are still true, in general. That's the purpose of a generalisation!

The 'powers' thing is a well-known computer game analogy. All participants can play the same game by the same rules, but some start off with more lives or powers than others. This gives them an advantage over those with fewer starting privileges.

there was a social experiment video doing the rounds a bit back, 2 actors posing as a couple went to a busy city square, when he started to shout at her, back her against a wall and be aggressive people immediately stepped in and intervened. when it was reversed and she was aggressive to him she went as far as physically assaulting him and people were pointing and laughing.

DV is difficult to equalise as surely the reasons behind it are different for each gender?

"i see so many feminism posts that make sweeping generalisations about men, seek to victimise themselves and make men the enemy" - citation needed.

I don't like what other men tell me feminism is about.

i just don't get the feminism movement atm.. like others I just feel it's so conflicted..

1. I don't see why feminists wouldn't seek gender equality, i was obviously misinformed in sociology.

1. with this liberation thing it just makes me uncomfortable as i see so many feminism posts that make sweeping generalisations about men, seek to victimise themselves and make men the enemy. It pushes me, other women and men away from it all which surely isn't a good thing. Again surely a cause which pushes for equality (i thought feminism was one) is meant to unite reasonable, compassionate people to fight against ignorance and discrimination, why make it men vs women

gralick I think there are inequalities for both men and women, and i also want to point out i think the vast majority of men are respectful, caring and considerate people who don't set out to harm or subjugate women.

"To get to it, though, they'll have to give up a few of their 'powers' so there are likely to be a few ructions along the way." totally lost me there.

I complain about the existing lack of interest in female on male violence. DV should be treated with equal consideration and gravity no matter what the gender is, yet the lack of awareness, stigma and the social values of what men should be means that it is often not reported or taken seriously.

Scallops beat me to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 37 could be broken down further and were due to them being in fear of their life/self defence.

itsnotjustaslap . It's a story that's repeated time and time again. There is a woman on the other thread in Relationships who deals with women in prison and she hears the same thing and worse. Women who've killed their partners after years of abuse, in fear of their life.

Men are creating the men vs women dichotomy. I'd like them to stop now please.

Thanks for the chart scallops.

For readers with selective number blindness, the pie chart shows that:

268 men and women were killed by their male partners.

37 men and women were killed by their female partners.

Now please show me how domestic murder isn't gendered.

Many, many abusive men when caught out being abusive to theirtheir female partner will lie that their partner was abusive to them in a certain tit for tat, or misrepresent themselves as a victim.

It is so common for an abused woman to have to fight against her partner's lies - that she hit him first, he just retailated, it was only a slap and just the once and really that she is as bad as him; six to one, half a dozen to the other.

I know. I was very down trodden through mental and physical abuse and ovwrwhelming control. I never once retaliated verbally or physically. My husband weighed six stone more than me. I reported my abuse at different times to my gp, health visitor, social services, friends and finally the police. Although my ex admitted it and was cautioned, and went on a dv perpetrators course he continued to be abusive post separation and finally took me to court over contact.

Despite there never being a shred of evidence he later claimed that our relationship was abusive on both sides and portrayed himself as a victim who lived in fear of me and finally once had snapped and hit me in self defense. The court accepted this and in the preamble of the court order states that our relationship was "volatile" and abusive on both sides.

Ihatelego, that was my quote you pasted. I am an equalist. As part of my desire for level pegging, I acknowledge that women start off with bigger handicaps - fewer 'powers' in game terms - than men. If there were no inequalities, I wouldn't need to be a feminist! It looks pretty damn obvious to me.

I also believe, profoundly, that feminism's aims will improve men's lives as well. To get to it, though, they'll have to give up a few of their 'powers' so there are likely to be a few ructions along the way.

The part you quoted was a direct reference to men complaining about the perceived lack of interest in female-on-male DV and paucity of support services. As I and multiple PPs are pointing out, nobody's stopping them setting up their own. Why look to women to do this for them?

Feminism is about the liberation of women from male oppression.

When that happens then we can talk about equality.

I'm not going to even comment on the 40% figure. I've done it enough times tbh. However, it doesn't stop me feeling gaslighted every time I hear it.

Annie - nooo, that wasn't meant to sound like a reproach for not reading my post! I'm just glad someone else had the same reaction to the whole tit-for-tat mentality behind these sorts of exchange!