When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

getting a bit overwhelmed with things to respond to but in response to your post buffy:

No i don't think they're equivalent, first i'd ask are we talking about localised to the western world or worldwide. On both levels I understand women are discriminated against more so than men, and on a worldwide level women are subected to horrific gender inequality. I agree with that whole first paragraph.

Second paragraph - I think you've misunderstood me entirely! My issue with feminism is the way that certain attitudes and confusion about it's purpose means i, as well as others find it hard to identify with. If it is a movement which believes men and women should be equal and they campaign for women's rights? fantastic totally get that.

But when I see feminism (on boards here, news, elsewhere forums, and famous comedians/feminists) i often see hatred and sweeping generalisations towards men, which suggest that all or most men are this way (which i disagree with). I also find it difficult when a movement which wants to eradicate discrimination will then discriminate against someone due to their gender (for example not treating male victims of dv with respect or consideration or even mocking them) I just find that difficult, i think it does more harm than good.

(I do also have personal experience please don't assume i have no idea!)

Who is discriminating against male victims of dv and how?

I'm particularly interested in the 'how'

I don't agree that the already pitiful support for female victims should be slashed further to help men

No, why should it? And going back to the pie chart, why aren't we looking more intently at the massive divergence between male perpetrators and female? Are we supposed to say it's OK that men commit 87% of the murders, now let's argue about who gets more help with not being murdered by their partner? It's not OK.

The video has been dissected frame by frame and been found to have been edited in order for it to look like people were laughing and pointing when the man was physically assaulted. This is patently not the case. The people around them are different, the light is different, there are a host of other continuity inconsistencies as well. It's faked to make it look like people help women being hurt, but laugh at men in the same situation.

In reality, most people walk by when someone is being assaulted for fear of the violence being turned on them.

Just to reiterate, the film is edited to show something that never happened.

When I was in a shelter, due to my ExH trying to kill me just that once too many times, the last thing I could have coped with was a man being there. No one is stopping men building shelters. If, as you seem to, you agree that power is mostly held in male hands, you must admit that, if men wanted shelters, they would have built them by now. And please don't say that powerful people don't experience DV, because it's a crock.

I have limited time and energy. I choose to spend that time and energy promoting women's liberation from patriarchy. If men also benefit from an end to gender inequality, well fabulous, but it isn't the main focus of my activism. In the same way as I raise money for the National Autistic Society, but it doesn't mean that I don't care about bowel cancer, it just means that the NAS is the focus of my fund raising.

Why is it only feminists who are expected to stop focussing on their goals? Why are we accused of hating men? The men in our lives, who we love and respect are often a bit perplexed by that kind of statement! Why are we allowed to discuss women as a group, but as soon as we discuss men as a group, we're being mean to men?

I see a society dominated by a very small number of wealthy, educated, white males ... I'd have thought that was more to do with capitalism

What's your explanation for the preponderance of white males at the tops of the capitalist trees if not white, male privilege?

Very many feminists would say that capitalism's an inherently patriarchal system - I disagree, but that's a different conversation. In its currently widespread form, capitalism favours the male, the light-skinned, the rich and the able. The more of those qualities possessed by an individual, the more 'powers' that individual enjoys in our analogous game.

Whether rich, black women are more privileged than poor, white men, and so on are questions of intersectionality which is an important part of feminism. All other factors being more or less equal, though, you will find that women are at the bottom of each 'layer' however you choose to define your layers. Hence feminism. Of course, you can say the same about disability. Hence disabled activism. And about dark skin, hence racial activism.

Aaand, yet again, I've been led off the main topic by whataboutery.

Who is discriminating against male victims of dv and how?

And do you think female on male violence is taken less seriously because of societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity?

Do you think feminism is trying to fight such gender perception? Because I do.

Do you think DV shelters should be mixed sex?

regarding the video i think it highlights that many people don't female against male violence seriously, and the reason why many male victims are worried about speaking up when they experience this. The statistics could be a lot higher if you take this into account. Also yes violence against men has been normalised in the media.

if the issue here is violence, then what exactly is the point of "equality"? Would you say feminism has done its job if men and women were violent to each other in equal measure?

no i think this particular isse of DV highlights some big flaws with modern day, western feminism where you seek equality between men and women but then discriminate against some victims of DV (men) die to their gender, which is hypocritical and isolates many people from the cause. I think the point of equality when it comes to dv is to treat every victim as a person, and individual and give them the same respect, consideration and support regardless of their gender.

By that I mean that men do x to women in large numbers and in much larger numbers than women do x to men.

How can one fight for equality without using the words and statistics that describe and quantify the inequality?

"harmful, hate inciting generalisation such as men are abusers or men seek to take sexual advantage of women."

Ah, you are clearly reading a different feminist board to me .

"I've never said feminists should be building shelters, (although again why being a feminist would mean you would oppose that i don't know"

Ah, you clearly missed the part of my post where I said i would be happy to sign petitions etc.

I don't think I've met a feminist who opposes DV shelters for men, just as I've not meant a cancer care activist who opposes better stroke care. It's just a choice of focus.

Both women and men don't want to hear about the reality of dv, or any form of domestice abuse. From the abuser to family, people will say it's the woman's fault for winding the man up etc etc. Unless someone has experienced it or is quite emphatic, they will just not want to believe it is true and will think of all sorts of reasons to shut you up because they want to be convinced that men (and some women) can't possibly be that nasty.

I have personally been on the receiving end of this sort of criticism whenever I've voiced my opinion (with personal experience) and either been mocked, had the old eye roll or been told blatantly that it can't be that bad. I was once even called controlling and a bully by a friend when I confided that I was having to pay all the bills and the ex got angry when I asked him to help. So, I think people who haven't directly experienced it just don't get it, unfortunately. I no longer talk about my experiences to anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves. It's just too humiliating and upsetting to listen to their response.

Ihatelego, apart from feminists, who else do you think should be building DV shelters for men?
There are charities which work with both male and female victims, organisations against violence etc. I've never said feminists should be building shelters, (although again why being a feminist would mean you would oppose that i don't know)

Well if you don't accept that men have privilege and in order to have equality with women they will have to lose some of that privilege then you are never going to get feminism (or any other social injustice movements as they all recognise privilege in its various guises)
I get many social injustice movements, I associate with humanism and will speak out regularly against injustice such as with psc and attending peace rallies, BDS movement etc. I do think there is gender inequality against women, and there is also gender discrimination against men. it is a serious issue that needs adressing i'm just confused by the conflict stances and attitudes within feminism and don't associate with a group that at times is hateful, extreme, and portrays all men in a certain way.

ihatelego. OK, equality in what sense though? In the basic definition of the word - everyone should be treated equally as people regardless of their gender, race, sexuality, religion etc. We shouldn't discriminate someone for something out of their control i'm not sure how there can be other senses of that

I see a society dominated by a very small number of wealthy, educated, white males and I see how they are able to use their power to increase that power and protect their domination. I'd have thought that was more to do with capitalism and society rather than gender discrimination.

Again what i read sounds like an issue with capitalism, one i have too but i don't think it is progressive to turn that into men vs women.

lots to respond to - bear with me!

I generally think sweeping generalisations in the context of race/gender/religion should be avoided surely. Could you give me an example of men do x and women do x? as im genuinely curious and can't think of an action that is gender specific and can be generalised except for maybe biological functions such as women give birth? But then that's not the generalisations I see on feminist boards it is usually harmful, hate inciting generalisation such as men are abusers or men seek to take sexual advantage of women.

I see what you mean about the powers, but in society that is a natural culmination of our diversity and societal attitudes, class is very influential (can't remember which is most i have been told at somepoint!) your upbringing, where you are born etc

equalitist I like that.

This has more relevance to the 'woman hits man, people laugh' trope than might at first be obvious.

Gralick my comment was slightly tongue in cheek.

Though often you get strawman pre emptive counter-statements about feminism which isn't true or widely held usually followed by an equalitist statement.

female on male violence is generally less common and less fatal I would agree with your comment buffy.

It fits in with the trope of man does/says something silly woman slaps him on arm etc. Remembers those 'just for laughs' sketches where the womans dress falls down on queue, man looks women remonstrates with him - que canned laughter.