When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

That's what's been so very taxing about this thread - lego, you've spent five pages and god knows how many words disagreeing with stuff that nobody's said.

You're right, anyway, it's late. An hour later than it was five minutes ago! Sweet dreams.

No one disagrees that women can be perps and they can victim blame.

I really don't want to carry this on, as I don't want to be accused of de-railing the thread/posting too much and i definitely don't want an argument or insults! (havn't worked out how to hide a thread yet)

But please, please don't construe me as someone who is ignorant to dv, gender discrimination etc. I've already posted one of my experiences, but another is of dv, having to get emergency injunctions etc. But the most profound experience was a workshop my DF practically made me attend after than on recognising abusive relationships. I will never forget the experiences those other women shared, and some of the abusers for those women were other women. I have since recognised other abusive women in my life and the effects it has had on me and others and some of the things that 3 particular women have said/done will never leave me despite the dv and SA.

From this background all i've basically expressed is that i agree with all feminist issues and principles, but i personally disagree when it is not distinguished that both the vast majority of do not act/approve of this and that women can be abusers and contribute to victim blaming etc. too.

It's just my personal thoughts i was happy to discuss/explore it but i'm sorry for clogging up the thread. Totally understand the points that reasonable pp have made and it's been at times a stimulating and interesting discussion.

On that note at this ungodly hour i'm going to bed!

people who ignore the basic facts about who holds the power and who is oppressed, should not be listened to

Sorry, I have no copy and paste facility, I know I changed that a bit;

But I totally agree. It is what happens in the male victims of dv comeback. And pretty much what has happened on this thread

Vincenzo... That's sadly true. The type of person who says things like that is not someone to be listened to, because they ignore the basic facts about who had the power and who were the oppressed. There are always members of the oppressed class who will do the oppressors work for them. Such it was with the black slave masters, but the power still lay with whites, who could take away the small powers of the black slave masters if those people didn't perform their roles adequately, or rocked the boat in any way.

The facts are fun quote was aimed at the troll. Not you. Sorry that wasn't crystal clear, I did write it after quoting Trolly McTroll's stupid comment. I do apologise if that made you feel like it might be aimed at you.

The video has been roundly debunked. Frame by frame. GIYF

People do this about most types of inequality I think. If there is a conversation about the Slave Trade, a large proportion of white people are VERY quick to point out that there were black slave masters too. I just think that some people ate too uncomfortable with the truth. Unwilling to accept it, no matter what

I don't think my facts were debunked, the video was brought into question fair enough. I just think we have different opinions on the matter, i'm totally happy with that

Then you won't have to worry about all these annoying facts & figures, you'll be able to proceed with minimal cognitive dissonance

Facts are fun. We like facts. You don't.

ihatelego Sat 28-Mar-15 23:21:33
haha i don't know i put forward the notion that the majority of men aren't abusive potential rapists and had a successive stream of pp jump on me and come to some strange conclusions hmm sorry!

But nobody has actually said that the majority of men are abusive potential rapists. Posters are saying that the majority of domestic violence is committed by men, and that said dv committed by men is more likely to be serious/life-threatening than dv committed by women. You see the difference?

Not sure anyone did that though. No one has said you're ignorant, except you. You gave your facts, and they were debunked. You don't believe the debunking, as you refer back to your facts, but that's fine, not everyone is comfortable with their ideas being challenged.

However, what your posts have done is amply demonstrated that the OP was pretty accurate.

If you didn't mean to do that, then maybe it's just the way you're expressing yourself? I don't know, I'm trying to put a positive spin on your posts, but you seem to have returned to your original view that feminist are bad, which is a shame.

But WHY are you so keen to tell us all what's wrong with feminism??? Or how we're doing it all wrong, or whatever your actual point about it is.

How SHOULD we do it?

[sigh] i am obviously imagined myself typing numerous times my experience and understanding of facts, figures and the problems faced by women in a world where gender discrimination is rife.

If anyone ever wonders why so many young men and women struggle to identify with feminism they should read this thread - it's a perfect example.

I'm not looking for an argument, my thoughts are posted throughout the thread, if it makes some of you feel better to condemn me as some sort of ignorant, man pandering idiot then so be it, knock yourselves out.

And, if I'm not very much mistaken, is a PBP.

Ihatelego is engaging politely, as far as I can say.

Lazo is spelunking all over as many FWR threads as he can drag his lazo bones across.

Actually scrub my first sentence on that post. Ive seen it happen on Dadsnet!

but i don't see men posting shaming other womens bodies because of their personal weight problems

Not on here no but its rife on the MRA websites One of them even ran a "fat shaming week" on twitter about 18 months ago. The charity beat were about as impressed with that as i was.

As a complete aside to this thread, I was just musing on how Dittany & co used to answer naive questions with a curt "read this link". They said it was because they were fed up with disingenuous goady fuckers finding it funny to waste The Feminists' time by putting up endless weak arguments and pointless questions. I'm more willing to give people explanations, but there's a fine line to be drawn somewhere.

Back on topic, thank you lego for so amply demonstrating the very issue of whataboutery raised in Fireirons's OP. Might I suggest you go and join a support group for abused men? Then you won't have to worry about all these annoying facts & figures, you'll be able to proceed with minimal cognitive dissonance :)

I have RTFT thanks.

Did you?

puffin you obviously havn't read my posts, please rtft.

my initial post was *i've previously been able to pull up facts for male victims of dv in a few seconds. It's a serious problem and they can be just as affected by female victims.

Surely the best way to progress as both feminists and taking a stand against dv is to treat it with equal measure and recognition and respect all victims the same. *

From here pp have objected to that and asked questions, we've discussed it, agree to disagree as far as I'm concerned.

What is this thread all about? Any feminist will tell you only men can be violent and only women can be victims

Wrong

And any man who is a victim of DV just needs to "man up"! Am I right fellow feminist? girl power! men are stupid pigs!!

Wrong

Facts are fun. We like facts. You don't.

That point is irrelevant to the thread though Ihatelego. Nobody has said that the vast majority of men are abusive - the thread was about a denial that dv is gendered, people saying 'women do it too' as a derailment to a conversation about dv.

The fact is the vast majority (80-90%) of perpetrators are men, and the vast majority of victims are women.