Going 'no makeup'

YY Agentcooper (and my shackles are very useful given my bad back and big boobs!).

Great post agentcooper, totally agree with your comments.

(And by "never" I mean "never after I stopped using the raccoon eyeliner when I was 14".)

I've never worn makeup, not so much as a brave stand against the patriarchy, but just never got into it after the usual teenage raccoon-with-too-much-eyeliner period. Some decades on, and I think of all the time and money I have saved, and don't regret a thing.

(I put Palmers Cocoa Butter on my face after my morning bath, and I'm done. Other moisturisers don't feel as nice.)

I haven't RTFT - sorry. But bits of it.

It occurs to me that I like the freedom to wear makeup and see if it makes me look nicer, and absolutely loved buying it when I was about 11, but I do not wear it religiously and I feel rather sorry for those who feel they must.

I dislike foundation or heavy make up, to see on people I suppose which is why I have never ever bothered with it myself. It seems like a prison.

But I like the fact it can make people look so pretty.

I guess I am an 'artist' on some level (I paint, I enjoy experimenting with colour in my home and so on)

But really what it comes down to for me is that it is a great servant, and a poor master.

I tend to take the Sarah Lund attitude mostly which is that I am far too busy to bother...I look a lot better with some blusher though. Anything I have to clean off with special solvents - forget it

I wear makeup to work every day, knowing full well that there's a certain amount of social coercion going on, but at least I'm aware of and can mull over that when I want to.

I quite like the ritual, tbh, and I like the way it looks. It does make me feel more work ready but there are plenty of women in my office who never wear makeup and I doubt any of us think twice about it. I usually don't wear any at weekends unless I'm going out.

I would hate to feel 'forced' into wearing make up, or inadequate for not wearing it. But equally I don't enjoy it when it's implied that I'm a slave to miserable Foucauldian regulative discourses because I do wear it (I work in a university, btw). It's kind of like the bra question. Slender Friends have told me that I really don't need a bra and I'd feel better about myself if I didn't wear it, as I'm effective 'shackled.' But my 32Fs are quite alright in a bra, thanks, they don't want freeing.

I know that if bras and makeup had never been invented I wouldn't need them or miss them. But they were invented, I've grown up in a society where they're common, I'm used to them and I like them. I understand why they're problematic but I've thought things through and made my choices.

(Perhaps they think me a lost cause!? )

No one has told me I would look better if I put on make up but I'm prepared to do the standard MN "do you mean to be so rude" line if and when they do.

I find the amount of 'tired' comments interesting. It's still deemed appropriate to comment on how a woman looks even if not wearing make-up, isn't it? I just asked my DH (yes I know, sample size of one) and he reckons he's never been told he looks tired except at the end of really long days when everyone's knackered.

So yes, I do think there's still some kind of pressure on women to look a certain way, fresh, pretty, attractive, presentable etc. that isn't on men. And so yes, it's a feminist issue. As Chopper says, maybe not always at a micro level, but certainly at a macro level.

I also think there's a difference between looking a 'mess' and simply not wearing make-up/heels/what have you.

I'm one of those grotesque natural women, btw. I also don't particularly judge myself by what my DH thinks of my appearance or fuckability.

I look clean and tidy on a daily basis (clean nice-ish clothes, clean brushed hair that looks neat in the style I wear). I think it's very odd that someone else would look at me and think that I would look "better" if I wore an amount of make up they deemed appropriate. Let alone that they would think every women (or men as well?) would look "better". Whose opinion of "better"?

I have found that confidence and ability are just as useful as being "groomed" when it comes to first impressions.

math I was being facetious with that comment really. But I never understand why people will say that they are completely immune to external influence when they do something that is generally culturally approved. It's not like it makes anyone stupid or easily influenced to do so, or that they haven't made an active decision, it just that acknowledges external influences do exist.

I don't agree that well-applied makeup on a woman's face gives her the same status markers as a man in a pricey suit

Chopper, men have other ways of 'putting on their faces'. In their case it may be a cutting edge tie or facial hair style or whitened/straight teeth or how tall they are, how expensive their suit or shirt are, or the cut of their suit. With casual wear, certain brands signify status, having it all together, making money -- for men the signifiers used tend to revolve around earnings which are equated to alpha-ness and being powerful. Cars are important signifiers for men too.

Where women put each individual element of the makeup isn't the same issue as why women use it and men don't. But still, a woman who seems on top of her makeup, doesn't look like a 4 year old daubed her, seems able to get her hair doing what she wants it to do, and generally conveys the image of being 'together' and in control of her appearance tends to exude the same vibe as the man in the pricey suit.

I love makeup. I wear it most days and I truly believe that most women look better with a little bit of slap on. I think that one just looks a bit more groomed.
In fact, I know a few 'alpha' males who wear
makeup .

Assuming that you don't usually dress like a slob, then I don't think the change of wearing a nicer outfit for a special occasion is as dramatic a difference as wearing (noticeable) makeup if you usually wear none.
It's interesting to read that there is something of an expectation to wear makeup at certain social occasions. I have a few friends who never wear makeup, and it's always a bit bizarre to see their wedding photos where they don't look anything like themselves because they are wearing full makeup.

and to Lolly, who apparently reads a lot of housewife manuals from 1951 and doesn't think much of men's integrity or other higher qualities.

Well the question is why so many women (and I include myself in this) feel good when they put makeup on their faces, and why relatively few men do. There must be something cultural guiding us otherwise we wouldn't all be using makeup in broadly similar ways (enhancing "good" features and/or disguising "flaws"). If as many men as women were doing the same then it wouldn't be a feminist issue (and Tbh I don't view more products being marketed at men and their "flaws" as progress really). We can talk about individual reasons for wearing makeup, but there must be external influences telling us what makes us look "better" otherwise women would be just as much putting blusher on their chins as on their cheeks.

I fail to see the link to feminism really. I view it the same as choosing what to wear each day, and base my decisions on what I think will make me feel good that day

I said much the same but apparently I don't really make my own mind up and I'm doing it due to societal expectations

I have to say that I think it is grotesque not to be groomed. You don't have to 'cake it on'. My full make up takes less than 10 minutes. I feel glamorous, put together and in control. And attractive, If you wear none and look like a mess, then you will be judged as and treated like one. I wonder how many of these 'natural' women have husbands who 'work late'?

great point, housemum. Here's to the option of practical dressing without being considered slobbish!

still have never seen anyone look better with it on. You see the occasional sleb doing no make up and the years just fall off. Sadly they seem to think they look worse.

I love the fact that now it is "normal" to choose to wear or not wear make-up. Looking at articles in older magazines (50's/60's) if you weren't presenting a made-up face you were, "letting yourself go".

Personally, I like a slick of light plum coloured lipstick which makes me feel good, but that's about it every day. If I am going out, I will put make up on in the same way that I would put a smarter dress/top on.

I do wear makeup because I don't want to frighten people with my ugly mugg..heh heh

I work with a young woman, who is permanently caked with foundation, and thick make up, fake tan, fake nails and it makes me really sad! She is so lovely looking without all of that, and she obliterates her natural beauty with it. Oddly enough my Granddad used to say that to me when I was young, but I didn't believe him! I guess when you are young and vulnerable to advertising you are more likely to spend a fortune trying to look like everyone else.

Someone once told a friend of mine who naturally looks a bit blonde and pneumatic she should alter her image to less suit the patriarchy ... she genuinely just looked like that. Breasts home grown, tan from a healthy outdoorsy lifestyle and long hair because she didn't cut it. Thing was we had serious student discussion about whether she should!

I'm a performer in terms of being into hobbies and interests that I like to dress to demonstrate. .. hence make up!

It's the shoe thing that bothers me the most. I refuse to wear shoes that are designed only for the purpose of displaying the female leg to its supposed best advantage, but that is actually very harmful and even dangerous to wear. And I've noticed that what was a glass slipper in the Disney 1950 Cinderella movie has become a glass stiletto in the 2015 version.