Going 'no makeup'

This has possibly been discussed upthread with the beard thing - but is there a line between the pressure to be "well put together" so you satisfy cultural standards/prejudices of what it means to look like an attractive woman, and the pressure to be "well put together" so you satisfy cultural standards/prejudices of what it means to look like a reliable or professional person? (Are either of them reasonable?)

Because she wants to wear them? And likes them? What's hard to understand about that...

I don't understand people who wear 'eccentric' clothes. Helena Bonham-Carter. What, in the name of Jeremy Clarkson's pea brain, is that all about??

We all know you don't care to examine these things, Still, and that you claim to have better things to do. And yet you're on every thread, repeatedly saying so, so you clearly don't have that many better things to do

Interesting thread. I've gone the other way, never used to wear it at all except for special occasions. Then about 5 or 6 years ago I lost the vast majority of my eyebrow hair to alopecia. I'm very dark haired with pale skin so that looks very odd indeed. So, eyebrow pens etc became part of my daily routine, and I have them down to a fine art. And if I'm going to sit down and do them I tend to start adding a bit more make-up if I have time, which I usually do now the DCs are older. I like doing it, the more often I do it the easier it gets - I used to worry that when I only did it occasionally I would make a real ham-fisted job of it, now I know I can do a decent ob in 5 mins reliably. And I feel better dressed with it. I will go out without any sometimes (apart from the essential eyebrow pencil), but I choose to wear it most days now and I feel far less self conscious in it than I used to do. I keep it pretty natural. I'm sure I will have spells of not bothering again.

On the one I think that is key, that you are doing it because you want to, not because everyone else is and you have to live up to that. However I am conscious of the fact that the bar seems to be gradually getting raised with grooming generally, nails being an obvious example, beautifully manicured nails in every colour of the rainbow are more the norm than the exception round here, which puts a little pressure on those that don't IMO, I do my nails far more often than I used to as well. I would say that I am at heart a no make-up person (I very rarely wear it on holiday for example, as it feels good to leave it behind as with other day to day things), so I often think how beautiful women with no (apparent) make-up look and admire them for not falling for the societal pressures.

Yes, wearing make up means we (general we) are conforming to an image of what women are meant to be like. I still enjoy wearing it .

That said, I would never suggest to a woman who doesn't like the stuff that she ought to wear it or that she would look better with it.

As PP have said they make choices that are not feminist, not ideal but they still do it - because we are human.

but it's worth exploring how that fits into our society, its structures and stereotypes, no?

Personally no. I really don't care. I like dressing up, I particularly like dressing up in 50s New Look Dior style and some very eccentric clothes from a designer in Amsterdam and a not particularly well known French designer.

I've got better things to worry about than what societal pressures are making me choose these clothes.

I've always like dressing up and my every day clothes are usually a bit eccentric. Random strangers men and women compliment me on how I dress. Which pleases me.

Possibly I'm vain and shallow, again I don't really care.

I have never worn makeup in my life, never, and I am in my 40s.

My overriding memory of being young is watching my grandmother put on make up. I really loved her, but she was ancient in my eyes, and I never wanted to be old like her.
Every time I even smell make up I just reminds me of old ladies.

Was that why DS1 cried and cried when he was tiny?

OK sorry I'll stop being facetious now.

at the idea of having to put on make up right after giving birth so as to look attractive enough for your own baby ...

And if babies look longer at red trucks than blue, say, is that an important judgement for humanity?

There may have been some studies about babies looking longer at symmetrical faces, but that's nothing to do with make up...

Another non-Amish person here.

We all make our choices. Mine do not include make-up. Bit of a leap to suggest I must have been locked in a basement or belonged to a religiously based community.

I look in the mirror and I am happy with what I see. I like me the way I am. I am confident in myself and happy for the world to see my face in its natural state. I do not care whether other people find me attractive or not.

And in my experience, what babies prefer is comfort and positive attention. I have yet to have a baby comment on attractiveness!

Does this all boil down to....

Yes I am free to do as I choose, including confirming to a patriarch defined neo-consumer image of women.

Doesn't stand up to much scrutiny as valiant or virtuous really, but it appears that most don't care.

Define "attractive".

I'm another "odd" one. And did not grow up in the Amish community. Had very happy childhood and teenage-hood. And quite happy now too. And I have friends and colleagues who are either very good actors or who actually don't mind looking at my "naked" face.

That's fair enough, Hovis. I just can't think of a single woman over the age of twenty-one who doesn't look infinitely better with properly-applied make-up. Yes, that's because a smoother complexion and bigger eyes and plucking sasqwatch eyebrows have been defined by our society as being the ideal, but who cares? Even babies prefer attractive faces.

I go through phases . Sometimes wear it every day, sometimes don't wear it for weeks. Always wear it for a night out but don't go out that often.

PurdeyPie

I think a woman who never, ever wears make-up is odd. Where were you as a teenager? Locked in a basement in an Amish community? grin

I'm not Amish! Though I may well be odd. I had two older DB, my DM never showed me how to put on makeup, school was pretty strict about what makeup you could and couldn't wear, and I also infinitely preferred staying at home with a book rather than dressing up and going out. Also, my sole 'tutoring' in makeup came from being taught how to put on theatre makeup. So when I came to try out putting makeup on as an older teenager I ended up looking like Tutankhamun with my clumsy eyeliner.

I might put a dab of concealer (if I can find my 5+ year old stick of it) over a particularly egregious spot, but that's it. I could see the appeal in putting on mascara once in a blue moon but don't actually own any so that's fairly theoretical.

I won't be giving up my make up any time soon but I do think its valuable to discuss the factors involved in deciding to wear make up. Its not an entirely free choice and I think as a feminist its important to be aware of that

But it's worth exploring how that fits into our society, its structures and stereotypes, no?

Lottapianos: That's a good point. But then 'you' is whoever you choose to be, no? Surely putting make up on is part of that.

emzii, I feel the same as you do although it is ironic that we feel most like us when we're changing our faces to make them look different!

I love putting my make up on :) Makes me feel girly and like myself! I will pop to the shop or the gym without my face on, but I feel like a slob because I haven't made the effort. I'm not one of these people who is insecure about the way I look without make up on, its my face...like it or lump it. But I do feel better in myself when I've got a bit of concealer and some mascara on :)

I love make up. I love shopping for it, buying it, applying it. I watch all those Youtube make up tutorials. I don't wear it every day though, and couldn't give a toss if someone sees me without it.

I enjoy dressing up, too.

I don't think that enjoying make up and clothes is an exclusively female thing, anyway.

Make-up, diets, hair colour, teeth whitening, posh clothes, posh car, big house. They are all non-essentials but why the make-up embargo? I think a woman who never, ever wears make-up is odd. Where were you as a teenager? Locked in a basement in an Amish community?