wtf are work thinking?

I agree mentoring tends to be important. But do you think women need lists of recommendations in order to help them to improve their career chances - recommendations that don't apply to men?

Well, there's a loaded question

I am in no way, shape or form a corporate animal, despite having worked in a big company for a very long time, so in terms of climbing a career ladder, I am not best placed to advise.

If I had wanted to succeed, I would have had to be mentored where I work. The women around me - my manager, her manager - are both mentors to those below them and have mentors senior to themselves. So, I think to be a corporate animal, you need that guidance (certainly where I work). It turns you into a twat, though, regardless of gender.

Do you think women need guidance to succeed Yops?

A combination of things, maybe. Some are plain old sexist - a woman just isn't competent enough/doesn't think the same way/should be barefoot and pregnant. I think/hope they are a dying breed.

Some of it may also be an easy way of removing a lot of the competition in one fell swoop. There is so much selfishness within the capitalist business model. People will use any excuse to put their rivals down, and if they can use sexism, well that's just another way of getting ahead. There is a lot of shitty, unethical, back-stabbing behaviour in business. Somebody suggested earlier that the public sector has better examples of senior women.

Is Yops really a man? If so that means I could recognise his gender from just a single post

Yops is a man so I was wondering if he had any insight.

The scary thing was mentioned by me, actually - not sure if Yops is particularly meant to have any insight into the use of that adjective?

I'm wondering if you have any insight into why other men find competent, smart women scary.

Cailin, any ideas about what? Your question at the bottom of the last page, or something else? If it's the former, nothing is scary about competent, smart women. I know plenty.

Eurgh the old "emotional" barb.

"You say that like it's a bad thing. Why is that?" you retrograde dick

Below are some of the things I advise firms who are bothered about getting this stuff right:

1. Get rid of your culture of presenteeism by measuring and rewarding actual out put, not bums on seats.

1. Make sure women on maternity leave are included in your employee opinion survey.

1. Have a robust process for supporting managers who have new and expectant parents reporting to them.

1. Conduct equal pay audits and then take positive action to address any discrepancies

1. Consider changing your pay and reward structure so you pay the majority of your employees the anchor for their role and a process so that anyone paid below anchor but performing to the required competency is paid at anchor within two years. Reduce the banding for all jobs so pay is more consistent. Reward excellent performances with a robust and transparent bonus scheme for individuals instead of consolidate awards. Make inflationary pay rises a flat rate (percentages are fine) applied to the job, not individuals.

1. Conduct regular role audits and evaluations. If you're a big company get someone in to do this impartially.

1. Give fathers/co-parents the same entitlements to leave after the birth of a child. ie Don't give women 6 months off on full pay and men just 2 weeks.

1. Modify your recruitment process to make it as blind, impartial and merit based as possible.

1. Allow all employees to apply for flexible working (I know this is now law but for a long time it wasn't) and consider all requests fairly and have a process to evidence this.

10. Talent and succession planning - who owns this? How are results measured? Who audits it? How do you ensure it is fair/recognising the right people/meeting your business objectives? - Just asking those questions does a lot of good if the business then does something about it.

Any ideas Yops?

What I want to know is, what's so scary about a competent, smart woman?

I'm described as 'direct,' I think because I don't skirt around things politely while fluttering my eyelashes winsomely. Funnily enough my rude male colleague is described as 'no-nonsense.' Subtle but important difference IMO.

I am scary (decided that probably works in my favour, do didn't challenge that one.)

I am also the emotional one. That did result in me offering spontaneous education on how women are judged differently from men for the same behaviours, but I suspect this was just seen as evidence proving their point. I may not have helped my cause by pointing at least I can feel emotions, because I am not dead inside, and I try to get things improved rather than just accepting all the shit without question.

Well of course Lady. Women understand perfectly well how to 'get ahead,' we're not fucking thick. But you can't get anywhere if people constantly block your way.

Don't forget 'scary', LadyRainicorn - a friend in a Facebook group had this thrown at her last week.

All of these reports imply that women don't succeed because they're somehow too stupid to understand basic career tips that men understand. It is so fucking insulting.

I'm sure it's common throughout financial services. The old boys networks are depressingly alive and well.

Also in financial services btw so have seen this loads of times.

I hate this sort of stuff. Lots of "women should step up and take more risks and be more visible". I look forward to the equivalent advice that men should shut up and step aside and stop dominating on the basis of nothing

Honestly it's nonsense. I am quite senior in my industry and I am one of very few women here. All the women I know in this industry are awesome and we are all way behind where the men are in terms of seniority, pay etc. I notice these days when I go to conferences, the women are often really good speakers whereas many of the men are coasting. I think it's because women have had to work harder all the way along. But are they the CEOs? No. Why? Because men hire men. Because the industry hires men. Because hiring a woman feels like you are making a point.

It's going to take us time to get there but this whole discourse that it's women who have to change and they are just not big and tough enough to take it is just absolute nonsense and really quite insulting.