I can't get my head around the phrase "Transwomen are women".

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html

0 links to any studies she has done in that article.

"But biological women are being asked to budge up and shut up to make space for trans women, at the expense of their own comfort and feelings."

I had this discussion with someone in the military years back (weird, but true). A few decades ago, gay people weren't permitted to serve in the military. Then they were. Many servicemen and women were uncomfortable with serving cheek-by-jowl - sharing bedspaces, communal showers and toilets (literally in the case of the Royal Marines etc) with people that were potentially sexually attracted to them. But, in the end, they had to live with that, because gays serving in the military was the right thing to do.

Yes, ok, generally people don't suffer at the hands of homosexual violence. But, life is about balancing rights. There's no easy division.

Mary, I think you mean intersex. It is not the same thing as being transgender.

No, I won't do that. I won't be told how to define womanhood by men.

I thought the differences were thought to be down to brain plasticity - am not a neuro scientist though so may be talking undergraduate bollocks. Ahem.

"So is it okay to say "women have vaginas", or is that transphobic?

I've been racking my brain as how to define it any other way really. If I'm being told by someone with a penis how I have to define the word "woman" that make me quite annoyed."

If it makes it easier to get your head around it think of hermaphrodites.

Hermaphrodites have a vagina and penis and on occasion both XX and XY chromosome pairs, yet mentally they can identify as either male or female.

Just think of a transgender as one step farther than that and as such has the wrong sex organ rather than both.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html

We have known for a long time that on average men have brains with larger volume and slightly different density, in comparison to women. What no one has ever been able to show, is that this makes any difference.
And Trans people have the same size brains on average, to their corresponding biological sex.

Mary, I'm going to disregard the Wikipedia entry, but considering the first article, it suggests that there might be sex based brain differences. Some of these conclusions are based on animal studies, which I'm not sure are relevant to a debate about gender dysmorphia in adult humans. Other factors considered are impacts of chromosomes (I believe most MTF trans women are chromosomally male but happy to be proven wrong) and environmental impacts (but trans women are raised and socialised as male). IMO none of this adequately explains why someone who is chromosomally male and raised as a male would "feel like a woman".

"Mary, did the womens' brains just have a picture of a dress and some makeup inside them?"

No they did actual research rather than pull whatever suited their ideology best:

www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/males-and-females-differ-in-specific-brain-structures

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763413003011

Posting peer reviewed studies on here regarding gender differences that do not conform to the gender feminist dogma is like posing studies about evolution on creationist websites.

Facts must conform to the ideology or be dismissed...

Yy hermione, and I think that most women who aren't familiar with these trans debates would see what they read as a man in a dress in the women's bathroom and think "shit who is this pervert?? Why is he here?? Is he a peeping tom??"
Which is very unfair on the majority of trans women who just want to have a wee and wouldn't dream of predating on women, but this is likely how many women and girls would react. I definitely would have thought that when I was a child/adolescent and had no idea that trans people even existed - I would have been terrified!

Ubik1 wrote - "it's not the patriarchy that is demanding I uncritically accept trans-activist arguments about gender identity - it's young left wing men and women."

StillLostAtTheStation wrote - "patriarch Clarkson".

In a feminist context, I tend to think of a patriarch as someone who believes that the gendered hierarchy of society, which underpins the oppression of female people, is a good thing. This can include e.g. a page 3 model or a prime minister or a billionaire. I don't see why Clarkson is a patriarch, but "young left wing men and women", who approve of the gender hierarchy and influence trans legislation, apparently aren't patriarchs.

It's probably quite uncomfortable for women who have been raped and sexually assaulted in public toilets to have someone who is noticeably male in there too.

The issue over toilets and changing areas (totally different to the trans women wanting to volunteer in rape crisis centres) is about male violence against women and trans people. But biological women are being asked to budge up and shut up to make space for trans women, at the expense of their own comfort and feelings.

Here is one listing differences in structure and size both overall and in various areas.:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763413003011

The wiki page has a lot of good info and links to peer reviewed studies on it as well:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences

I have a lot of compassion for trans people who get bathroom panic, and I think it would be better if all toilets were gender neutral and totally private (floor to ceiling doors, private sink etc.)

But as it stands, I don't want women and girls to be frightened by people they read as men in their spaces. Sorry, they're my priority.

The issue is passing - no trans women who passes is going to be prevented from going into a women's toilet, because no one would have any idea she was trans.

The individuals at stake are therefore those trans women who don't pass. In those cases, they will be read as men by the cis women in the toilet, who will likely be made uncomfortable and/or frightened.

I assume that you pass kim, hence why no one seems to care.

And women might care Kim. But hardly anyone would object because it would be bound to lead to major issues for the woman complaining. Most would rightly think it is not worth it.

Kim if no one knew someone was trans, the issue wouldn't arise anyway. But if someone was openly trans, as some are, or it was obvious, no I wouldn't find it strange if they used another toilet.

I've been to a very trans-friendly conference where most of the toilets were re-designated "gender neutral", and used by everybody, except two out-of-the-way toilets kept as women-only and men-only. There were two Famous Activists there, both trans women involved in recent brouhahas, and they both chose to go conspicuously out of their way to use the women-only loos.

I thought the recent case involving a night club paying compensation was to a transman not being allowed to use the gents.

As for not using the ladies or the gents one thing I have found out from MN there are all sorts of valid reasons for using the reserved loo which do not require obvious disability. (severe IBS or dealing with incontinence pads where the greater privacy is appreciated for example) So no I wouldn't find it strange, it's none of my business.

I'm with Kim on this. Imo the problem is that women's needs for safety aren't considered important. But it doesn't mean the issues aren't also genuine for the transwomen.