Consent, it's actually very simple

Well said Buffy. I found your question extremely odd partial. You behaved like a decent human being and the woman appreciated that. It doesn't really matter whether we think it would have been rape or not had you gone ahead. It would have been a shitty experience, possibly for the both of you. You were sensible and kind, which is really the least you should expect from yourself. No one here can say whether jt would have been rape as we weren't there but clearly you saw things weren't right and you made a good decision. IMO if you'd seen things weren't right and gone ahead anyway then that would indicate a rapist mentality at least and there is every chance it would have been raped.
BTW her behaviour very much fits the mould of someone who's been raped in the past.

Sorry to divert the OP

scallopsrgreat At some level partial must think that it would be OK for a man to stick his penis into a very drunk woman

ffs scallop, that is an awful thing to imply, and based upon what? I really do not see how my post suggested that I want to stick my penis into anyone.

Deeply offensive.

cailindana
In hindsight, Father Ted's Mrs Doyle was a total sex pest

I dunno. I think we are back to the debating school point.

If I ask a theoretical question at the Oxford Union about whether a potential immoral action of mine, say accepting money from an elderly person with a failing memory. would constitute a crime, maybe I'm philosophically stimulated.

If I ask it in a room where many people present are elderly people with failing memories who have had their money taken, unequivocally, no room for was it or wasn't it doubt. it's a different fish kettle.

Yes well exactly AKnickerful. At some level partial must think that it would be OK for a man to stick his penis into a very drunk woman and that wouldn't be a problem. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question.

He's asking if it would have been considered rape by the MN collective.

I wish that people wouldn't ask that. I don't know why they do. It makes me uncomfortable. I don't pop on and post "met someone drunk who tried to give me £100, would it have been theft if I'd said yes?" - I would say no to that because it's clearly the right thing to do and if they really wanted to give me money, let them do it sober.

It's always rape where people ask for clarity if not doing the right thing goes as far as being a crime. In this instance, partial did the right thing. Good, no cookie, but good.

Partial, if we said "no, that wouldn't be rape" - would you wish you'd taken the other decision? I hope not because I hope all our morals go further than "ah, it's probably not criminal".

So why was he asking whether it would have been rape to stick his penis into a very drunk woman?

Scallops, I think the last sentence is a bit unfair as partial did decide to leave the situation because he was concerned about the woman.

Rape isn't about what the woman does partial, anyway. It would have been about what you did in that scenario. You didn't do anything so the woman wasn't raped. Men don't have to accept the advances of every woman who makes them.

Moving away from the tea analogy, suppose a person was at a party, very drunk, demanding that someone give them cocaine. This person hadn't ever tried hard drugs before but was a bit plastered so fancied giving it a go. Would you give them drugs in that instance? One would hope not for obvious reasons. So why would you entertain sticking your penis into someone who was very drunk?

We stop very drunk people harming themselves all the time without asking whether we would be doing the right thing in not inflicting harm on them. You seem to think that sticking your penis into a very drunk woman wouldn't harm them. Why is that?

If you think someone doesn't have the freedom or capacity to give consent, then you risk raping them if you continue.

If you think someone had that freedom and capacity but they might regret it the next day, then you risk contributing to them feeling shit.

In the second, you're not a rapist, but you'd probably prefer your sexual partners to remain happy about the experience, so you stop anyway, right?

I would be interested to hear people's views on an experience I had many years ago. I'll try to keep it short.

I was drinking in a bar in Marbella, Spain. I got chatting to a Norwegian woman, we were both getting quite drunk. She invited me back to her apartment and we had more drinks.

She made obvious advances towards me, but I knew she was drunk and did not want to take things further.

She then started to verbally abuse me and told me I was gay (not saying that is abuse) I left.

I met her again a couple of days later. She told me how grateful she was that I had not 'taken advantage'. We remained friends while we were there.

Would you have considered it rape if I had accepted her advances?

Where does the cup of tea fit into this scenario?

Also an added note - if you claim not tl be able to tell whether someone wants tea or not, and have a habit of 'accidentally' foisting tea on unwilling people then you should lock yourself in a room because you're a dangerous idiot.

I should have put it under copyright! Still, glad to see it out there and that it's getting the point across.

Yes and you can add not everyone consents to milk or sugar in their tea either, although I heard tell some people are quite adventurous in their teapots and add slices of lemon!!

Still I like to know ahead of time what I'll be drinking.

Perhaps if you are explaining the concept of consent to teens then it could be a good analogy to use in schools for Sex Education.

That is a great link & a really simple but effective way of explaining it to the dumbasses out there who don't understand that sometimes someone isn't capable of saying no even though that's what they mean.

It's very good. But I think it fails in the situation that I offer someone a cup of tea and they seem to want it but they're so drunk I'm not sure they're really making rational choices. In that case, giving them tea is probably ok but giving them sex definitely isn't.

Very true...