The greens and prostitutes

". It really is quite simple - it is you arguing with me. "

Yes, I am arguing with you. I don't believe i am doing so belligerently.

I don't think it is simple. If you have been physically or emotionally abused, are dependent on drugs or a pimp etc, then it's simply an unhelpful statement that "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Whilst it might be simplistically true, in the same way that "if you eat more, you won't be anorexic" is simplistically true, it's not helpful in a large number of cases, and that's why you got the push back you did.

There is currently quite a bit of crossover between porn and prostitution.

I know a lot of people think consent can't be purchased. For example when a porn director pays a female actress to be in his movie and he is also a performer. Is it any different from the transaction between a prostitute and a John.

At the moment they are regulated differently. However, criminalising the buying of sex would surely impact pornography (which many would be happy with).

@Knickerful
I was referring to all of the above that posted after and in regards to me, not just to Buffy.

"I didn't take your original post to be only about career, if that is how you meant it?"
YES that is exactly how I meant it.
If you read all my posts over the last few pages that is the perspective I'm coming from, that prostitution is centred around money and whilst you may not stop the educated women chooisng to do this discreetly, you can effectively minimise the amount of women entering prostitution as a 'career choice' because that is the only way they can make money. The inferior quote is for those who should never feel oppressed and be given further education and skills which creates options and opens doors and alternatives to earn money other ways.

This quote should also be harnessed by carers who should be pro-actively protecting anyone with Mental Health issues who cannot see this reality for themslves. It really is quite simple - it is you arguing with me. LOL
If I'm disagreeing with anyone that beligerently attacks my intentions then I take that firmly on the chin, but you'll never change my view.

@Dad
That's an interesting article. Merseyside certainly focusses on safety, so that aligned with Nordic model could be a good solution, alongside the government investing in career incentives for women.

Sorry for not replying, life got very busy and still is. I have been watching some documentaries, discussing the Nordic model, German super-brothels and effects of legality/illegality of types of prostitution (street, escort, brothel). By 'grounded in reality' I meant not fudging around with research or wording to illustrate what you want.

The question is about whether punters should be criminalised...

I would personally like them to be criminalised, as I find what they do odious, but the effect of that under the Nordic model is to make the lives of female sex workers more difficult and hazardous, by their own account. Sex workers in the UK do not want the Nordic model and advocate a wider adoption of a thing called the Merseyside Model:

msmagazine.com/blog/2013/03/13/cry-for-the-merseyside-model/

I didn't think anyone here (on either side of the debate) was proposing that prostitution should be illegal anyway. The question is about whether punters should be criminalised

Ok, on a practical level they are currently regulated differently, so why should that change?

On a philosophical level, a number of porn actresses and actors are unlikely to be there of completely free choice, so porn carries many of the same power issues as prostitutuon.

Does that help?

What's your view?

A bit of both.

I have to go, so just quickly in case you look in later: the child grows up, damaged. There's no escape, no options for children. Even assuming they can see it well enough to clear out once they're adult (if you know abuse you know that that's not necessarily likely to happen for some time), their wholemindset is damaged. They carry on, as best they can. Might get sucked into drugs and drink. Or prostitution. Many go on to abusive relationships. All incurring more damage. And so on and on it can go.

I'm glad for you (and even more for myself) if you've managed to get to a patch of clear water with nothing going wrong where you can stop and reflect. Many people will never get that, or the patches are too small and far apart. Don't dismiss them so flippantly. Perhaps you just got off lighter than others did.

Mengog, are you speaking philosophically or practically?

If Prostitution became illegal how would that affect pornography production.

Is there a difference between a third party paying two other people money to have sex. Rather than the two parties themselves exchanging money.

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" is utterly offensive to those of us who suffer mental health problems, whatever the context.

I'd also like to take issue with that point. And the associated 'take yourself out of the equation'. Let's start with two words, pand0ra: child abuse. How does that match up?

And I'm not a radical feminist.

"No-one has the power to make you feel inferior without your consent"

No, cannot agree with that. You're basically saying it's the victim's fault.

Pan..... I'm sure your intentions are good. I'm sorry you find being disagreed with by people with expertise in the subject difficult. Not sure where you got the man hating from, however, if it was my posts, I fear you're so far off centre it really is laughable.

Enjoy your career. It sounds like it's rewarding for you. It doesn't make you correct in your assumptions about outcomes of abuse.

Pandora, Buffy wasn't talking to you...

Anyway, I believe that the notion "no one can make you feel inferior" from a career focussed perspective to be true and progressive - I didn't take your original post to be only about career, if that is how you meant it?

I'm sorry but I feel this is complete and utter nonsense.

I remain in strong contrast to the collective radical but antagonistic feminist views. From a radical yet balanced feminist perspective, "man hating" does not neutralise nor promote solutions it only serves to accelerate more hatred, repels people from contributing to a debate and contradicts / regresses the initial movement from reaching postive change. In visionary terms a "vicious circle" comes to mind.

I am not an LD, drug rehabilitation, or mental health support worker but I do have close relations to people in these fields and lines of work. My career lies in senior level talent acquisition, I believe that the notion "no one can make you feel inferior" from a career focussed perspective to be true and progressive, I have seen many inspirational positive changes in my line of work and life experiences. For anyone to dismiss my views as "crap" and to attribute a "sticks and stones" analogy only serves to highlight callous motives and narrow mindsets incapable of adapting to change.

Make of that what you will - My intentions are good. I have learnt alot from this debate up until the last few pages, however my energy is clearly better focussed elsewhere. Have fun with your thesaurus, i'm out :)

wuzzio.... out of interest, do you own a dog?

Sorry, gotta be done.

How many years' experience of selling sexual services do you have, wuzzio? What about of buying them?

If you RTFT, you will note that there is an experienced prostitute posting, Again, perhaps you would like to review what's already been discussed?

"most of the contributors on here are very well informed on this issue"

How many years experience do the contributors on here have selling sexual services if I may ask?

"about whether consent is meaningful when it is in exchange for money"

Shouldn't that be up to the adult prostitutes to decide for themselves, instead of others deciding for them?

Perhaps you would not consider consent to be valid if a man were to pay you for sex, but you don't speak for every woman on the planet.

benefit of the doubt (while bracing myself for some pimp apologist nonsense!)