The greens and prostitutes

I invite everyone reading this thread to listen to the full 10mins btw - fayyive has unsurprisingly misrepresented it there.

The Swedish model is built on the model of equality for men and women, they state that equality cannot exist if a man can spend his wages on paying a woman to do whatever he wants on the way home from work. "That, my friends, is not equality."

He also states that education of the punter is key. Men are paying into organised crime, and do not realise it. Punting is a source of shame in Sweden and rightly so.

And just as a reminder- trafficking, rape and sexual exploitation of minors are still illegal crimes under legalisation or decriminalisation.

I really don't see how labelling ALL prostitutes as trafficked victims is going to help the ones who really are trafficked? Perhaps someone could help me out on that one?

"He may also not see sex trafficking as a serious crime."

I'm still female. My gender hasn't changed.

Of course, Fayyive may not see rape as a serious crime. Just guessing there.

He may also not see sex trafficking as a serious crime. Also just guessing there. Obviously, the Swedish police are just out to "get" the children of prostitutes - nothing more.

What, like rape, fayyive? They take dna from the punters they catch and unsolved rape cases have been solved as a result.

Do you mean like that? Is good, huh? Seems rapists can be punters and punters can be rapists. Who knew?

Oh Fay.

Could you further clarify your bizarre lecturer thread?

Personally, I would rather the cops in my country do something else other than spend hours lurking outside buildings so they can hand out small fines to buyers of sex and possibly causing a prostitute to lose her home and children.

You didn't watch or listen to the source you asked me for at all, did you?

What's the point of asking me the source of what I write in posts if youdon't listen it? It's a 10min conference talk - surely you have the time if you'e on here and know so much about douglas Fox?

And despite both Df and AI denying any influence on their policy - it came out then that DF and DF's partner were part of IUSW.

video linked by whoopsbunny

So this is how the Swedish cops spend their time.

First they find prostitutes just like clients do by finding online profiles with Google, then they find the prostitute's address- he doesn't say how but I'm guessing a male cop calls the number posing as a client and makes a false booking to trick the prostitute into parting with her address.

Then the police drive to the building and spend hours watching it for men going in and coming out.

Evidence they use includes text messages which mention payment for sex, payment for sex conversations overheard by the police or "sexual noises" overheard by police.

If there is evidence the suspect is offered the choice of paying a small fine and being sent on their way or going to trial (most choose to just pay the fine).

Which means all clients have to do is not mention payment for sex while using his phone for the booking and keep the windows closed with music on so "sexual noises" can't be overheard and then there's nothing the cops can do.

And while the cop didn't say in this video I would imagine the prostitute would soon be getting a visit soon from social services who may want to remove any young children she has. Her landlord would also be exposed who would have to evict her by law.

So who does the law hurt more? Those who sell sex, or those who pay for it?

" the nordic model reduces all types of prostituion"

You mean street prostitution only? And the model was introduced in 1999- around the time the internet started to become available for households. Do you think escort internet bookings may have contributed to a reduction in street prostitution?

"but mainly targets trafficking - ie those doing it against their will, and those criminal gangs in the exploitation of women and children."

The police consider ALL prostitutes to be trafficked, the problem with that approach IMO it means the ones which really are trafficked won't be getting any priority over the ones who aren't.

" it all came out during the amnesty debacle."

Both Amnesty Int and DF have denied DF had any involvment on Amnesty Int's decision to advocate for decriminalisation.

Oh no, I have more.

I might even reference them tomorrow morning.

Yes he is - it all came out during the amnesty debacle.

But, on balance, regardless of what Douglas and escort agency partner say, I'll go with the Swedish police - the nordic model reduces all types of prostituion, but mainly targets trafficking - ie those doing it against their will, and those criminal gangs in the exploitation of women and children. That's good enough for me - the Laura Lees of this world are on their own.

I don't even think DF's partner is a member of IUSW.

If this is all you've got (one prostitute member having a partner who has an escort agency) then it comes across as straw clutching in your attempts tp discredit all the groups (there are also others) made up of prostitutes who support decriminalisation.

Didn't Laura Lee tell the NI committee that IUSW has 10 members and that includes pimps?

I've seen video of Douglas Fox and it's hard to imagine he has built a fortune selling himself.

He and his partner run an escort agency that was featured on TV. He claims that pimps are sex workers too. He is the main activist for IUSW

His own.

And for the record his partner owns an escort agency, not himself.

Doesn't he sell access to other people's bodies? Or does he sell access to his own too

DF does indeed sell sexual services.

It seemed like you were saying Douglas Fox was a sex worker.

It's all just diversion away from the fact that there are a lot of men who want to cling on to their belief that they must be able to access other people's bodies whenever they want

No, in the context of "sex worker activist groups" pimps are included as "sex workers".

They often run the groups.

I don't think a pimp is a sex worker.

In the context of sex worker activist groups, sex workers are adults who sell sex and consider it "work" hence the term.

Sex workers has become an umbrella term, it can also cover such people as porn film makers, escort company owners and so on. When it suits them, like. When it comes to the 'right' of the sex worker (who actually sells sex) to earn money selling sex and then give them a % of it.

You think a pimp is a sex worker?