The greens and prostitutes

Or maybe we should look at the root of the problem? Male violence and male entitlement?

Those figures are terrifying and shocking. I've seen them before but they never cease to affect me like that.

It mixes illegal and legal workers and ignores that the numbers for there are substantial differences in rates of victimization between street prostitutes and indoor sex workers who work as call girls, or in brothels and massage parlors. Women who work legally in licensed brothels are much less likely to be victimized as are indoor workers in countries where sex work is legal.

204 per 100k is near the murder rate of some of the worst countries on earth though and a example of why it needs to be controlled and policed because it has never been stopped no matter how illegal it has been made, it just goes deeper and darker just like banning abortion would do.

Yes, like all those women who have managed to get out of prostitution and now suffer from rampant PTSD... just not strong enough.

Or the women who now suffer from long term anxiety and depression due to their being raped.... lack of resilience.

And those figures are bloody shocking. People should be shocked. It's reality for the vast majority of prostituted women.

You are the one creating an 'animalistic man' mary.

And I'm so glad you think its up to the woman to choose whether she wants to have sex or not after having a baby. Even if it is for such a short period of time. In my house I get to choose every time I want to have sex, as does my partner. Weird, I know.

But Puffins, maybe they just weren't strong enough women .

Those figures are terrifying and shocking. I've seen them before but they never cease to affect me like that .

"Mary, if men have this "drive" that you talk about, would you also argue that it's okay for a man whose partner doesn't want/can't have sex (if she's just had a baby, for example) to go and fuck someone else, because he's made to need sex?"

Actually that is a better question than you realize and it cuts both ways.

Over such a short term i would not but its up to the woman as a individual to choose.

If it was over a long term due to her having a medical condition then i suppose it would be a decision for the couple to decide upon.

As far as the reverse is concerned i seem to recall several instances where a guy through injury or some other reason lost the ability to have sex and was ok with his wife having sex outside the marriage.

What if he has erectile dysfunction that cannot be cured is his willingness to let his wife have sex with another man to fulfill her sex drive not a act of devotion for the woman he loves and can no longer satisfy sexually?

Step back from your perception of it being all about this "animalistic man" that you have decided to create and a poor innocent woman and see it as a issue for both men and women regardless of the situation.

And that was just the women they studied.... honestly, it's possible to be so open minded that your brain falls out.

Women who had or were in prostitution had a mortality rate (meaning death rate) 200 times that of women of similar age and race.

100 women died during the length of the study, average age 34. Cause of death: 19% homicide, 18% drug ingestion, 12% accidents, 9% alcohol-related causes, and 8% HIV/AIDS.

The women had a mortality rate 391 per 100,000 compared to the general population, standardized mortality ratio, adjusted for age and race, of 1.9 per 100,000.

The active prostitutes had a mortality rate of 459 per 100,000 compared to the standardized rate of 5.9 per 100,000.

Active prostitutes were almost 18 times more likely to be murdered than women of similar age and race during the study interval.

The extrapolated workplace homicide rate for prostitutes in this study was 204 per 100,000, compared to 4 per 100,000 for female liquor store workers and 29 per 100,000 for male taxicab drivers.

John J. Potterat, Devon D. Brewer, Stephen Q. Muth1, Richard B. Rothenberg3, Donald E. Woodhouse, John B. Muth, Heather K. Stite1, and Stuart Brody, “Mortality in a Long-term Open Cohort of Prostitute Women,” Am J Epidemiol 159:778–785, 2004.

Seems pretty fucking lethal to me.

"Is prostitution somehow lethal now because nobody told me?"

Upthread a poster discussed how most of the prostituted women in a group she knew of were dead five years later. It is a dangerous line of work.

I am sorry you were raped and that your doctor was unsupportive.

lion, what do you think of prostitution were the women involved don't really want to be prostitutes, don't enjoy it or feel it makes them happy, but make more money than they would living on welfare and so choose to do it?

I'm not sure I know where I stand on it tbh, but it does seem to involve an active sort of 'consent', much more like why most people go to work every day.

feministcurrent.com/8620/podcast-a-leaked-document-shows-amnesty-international-supports-the-legalization-of-prostitution-canada-strikes-down-their-current-laws/

Just look at the language in it AGAIN feminism saying women have no agency over their decisions or bodies:

"Men’s “right to buy sex?”

rather than

"Womens right to sell sex".

And this victim language:

Bridget Perrier, "a prostitution survivor".

Is prostitution somehow lethal now because nobody told me?

I nearly flattened a asshole about 6 months ago for calling me a "rape survivor" as if what happened when i was younger was some sort of plane crash or something although on balance it was preferable to getting told "and you think you did not deserve it?" by my GP when i told him the fucking prick.

I thought i could find some strong women on here to talk to so if there are any that will not peddle me this victim-hood shite let me know and if not im done here.

Absolutely Petula.

And riveting.... not engaging is almost certainly the best possible position to take.

Mary, if men have this "drive" that you talk about, would you also argue that it's okay for a man whose partner doesn't want/can't have sex (if she's just had a baby, for example) to go and fuck someone else, because he's made to need sex?

Oh yeah that's a good point petula (though grim!) I hadn't thought of it that way before.

And mary I'm not going to engage with you if you're going to be so aggressive. Mn feminist forum is really valuable and unusual because that sort of behaviour is not tolerated here, as it is on other sites. Please be more respectful. I was happy to discuss with you earlier in the thread because you seemed to be prepared to discuss and learn, but you seem to be set on being antagonistic now.

And mary thanks for admitting you're anti-feminist (or gender feminist, whatever that is). Now we're all clear. Why are you on a feminist discussion forum, exactly? Did you think you were going to persuade us all that feminism is actually evil, or were you just trying to pick a fight? No one wants to fight with you, so it might be time to drop it.

rivetingrosie i am not a anti-feminist i am a equity-feminist.

Lets call your assertion that its gender feminism or anti-feminism the second thing you have in common with conservatives (along with controlling sex via banning prostitution) and conservative men especially as they are big on "purity policing" within their ideology as well.

And no i have no interest in doing anything but posting my opinion on the matters being discussed, while you and a few others here seem to have no problem attacking me personally for disagreeing with you or pointing out your faulty methodology.

Expect it hurled back at you everytime you do.

Re trafficking it is essential to punters because it means there is a significant number of prostitutes who are not able to vet and approve/decline punters. As Kim points out above.

I just wonder if you say the same thing to black people who might bemoan the fact they are the highest proportion of inmates in prisons, for example?
I'm just curious but I don't really have time to get into a debate as I need to put dd to bed.

I have a sense I'm not going to agree with what is 'essential' to prostitution if it isn't women who have the option of our welfare state and are more of the Happy Hooker variety, but looking forward to finding out more.

"I'm not particularly au fait with the feminism boards but Mary you do seem to be very limited as a woman in what you need/want and expect from others. It sounds very fake; as if you are living in some bizarre novella from the Victorian era."

Other than it being mentioned while i was growing up it was never a topic of interest as i simply got on with my life, perhaps only now really getting into discussions about it and getting my material from the web they may seem a bit polarized to others who have been involved for years.

However my comments about finding those who play the victim or rape meme in a discussion to avoid answering valid points is one i have seen a lot of and challenge it whenever i see it.

Thank you Rosie i'll listen to that as soon as I can get dd to sleep! Back later.

Lions I know that quite a lot of abolitionist campaigners argue that drawing a firm division between trafficking and prostitution is misleading, since trafficking is in fact essential to the sex industry and we can't really construct a binary between 'nice' and 'not nice' prostitution. I don't know much about this so I don't want to be too bold, but there was a feminist current podcast where this was discussed - feministcurrent.com/8620/podcast-a-leaked-document-shows-amnesty-international-supports-the-legalization-of-prostitution-canada-strikes-down-their-current-laws/

And mary thanks for admitting you're anti-feminist (or gender feminist, whatever that is). Now we're all clear. Why are you on a feminist discussion forum, exactly? Did you think you were going to persuade us all that feminism is actually evil, or were you just trying to pick a fight? No one wants to fight with you, so it might be time to drop it.

AH she's a handmaiden.
I will use that word in this instance