The greens and prostitutes

Then, if it follows what's happened in Germany,

the women would be working self employed,
they would rent a room and pay a percentage of each 'client' to the owner to cover the 'introduction fee',
the prices they would be able to charge would go through the floor, because younger women would be bussed in from Eastern Europe who are willing or made to work for far less money and do a wider range of riskier things,
Gaps in women's work record because the stigma against prostituted women is still rife and putting time spent in sex work of any kind on your CV doesn't look good to employers mean that any other kinds of work is difficult to get
The money is worse, but now they are forced to pay for extra health checks and health insurance premiums are higher, because even insurance companies recognise the risks involved, even within brothels.

Yes, they can work legally in brothels, however, even within those brothels women are raped and beaten, because it is an inherently dangerous job to do. Because it's legal, there have been regular noises, not realised as yet, that jobs within brothels should be allowed to be included in job centres, and in Germany, if you refuse a job you're qualified for, you lose all benefits and, let's be frank, all women are qualified to be fucked for money.

I do wonder how many people would still want to buy consent if it was accompanied with a booking system giving full name and address, a brief health questionnaire (as with beauty parlours), compulsory condoms and gloves where required etc...

I quite like the idea of all of the men who use women in this way to be recorded. I do actually think that could cut sex crimes quite significantly and solve a fair few at the same time. Although agreeing to a DNA test on record would be better for the latter. I wonder how Amnesty feel about that as a human right for the worker the punter is possibly about to abuse?

I think it would be a huge PITA for HMRC as well as possibly leading to an increase of fees for the punters. If the pimp of a super brothel is going to have to report instances of violence in case the prostitute makes a claim then his insurance or whatever will be sky high - the cost will be passed on to the punters. Surely that is not an attractive proposition for the guys who want to buy women as cheaply as possible?
If they regulate it, surely a database would have to be put in place? Could this not lead to catching prolific sex attackers - much like casino's have finger prints and a picture of their gamblers on screen in a nationwide database?

the black rider no they don't!

I don't know how the taxing is done in Germany, would we interested to know though!

And the "it's going to happen anyway so why not regulate it?" argument falls down on two fronts IMO.

1. will regulating actually improve the industry? Research seems to suggest not. Men who hate women enough to want to pay to violate them will continue to hate them with or without legal sanction - legal sanction will only increase the gross number of paid sexual exchanges, and so the gross amount of suffering for prostituted women.

2. couldn't we use that argument for anything? Paedophilia is still going to happen whether or not it's criminalised...

But if it were legalised and super brothels came?

Lion, I'd assume most prostitutes paying tax work as a sole trader or a limited company and don't have employees.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/07/taxman-vs-prostitutes

Buying/selling sex is not illegal in the UK, it's brothels etc that are illegal.

Wow the implications of unreasonable hours, paid holidays, health and safety - the mind boggles on how the EU is meant to deal with that all when kids aren't allowed to play conkers without safety goggles!
Will prostitutes have rights to sue their employees if they get an STD or are attacked? Or if they work alone would they sue the state?

Urgh. I did not know that. I knew Kim said she did it voluntarily, but didn't really think about the wider concept of that. I am assuming it is hard to enforce though and legalisation would make it far easier?

Yes Black - I was hinting at that without saying it outright.
The only way I could see around it (as in it actually being a female's opinion) was perhaps the teens in question were actually fearful and putting on their 'hard' face to avoid giving the wrong idea.

Lion, HMRC can already collect tax on the earnings of prostitutes.

Yy black rider.

Presumably if it is legalised HMRC will get tax on it. That idea completely repulses me. The idea that child benefit or welfare is given off the backs of abused women is pretty sick.

Sorry, Lori Watson said that!

I certainly don't want it legalised but as I said before I don't think abolition is possible. You can't police what people do in the privacy of their own homes and I think being realistic rather than idealistic is the better way to go. There will always be men wanting to buy and there will always be women wanting to sell (and I'm talking about voluntarily for cash/or presents etc). I'm happy to abolish trafficking but again I think it would be impossible to do the completely. The word abolish seems too unrealistic in a flawed society.

Kim, I assume that's a public health issue though, like HCPs wearing latex gloves when touching you. It protects both sides of the interaction.

The problems with legalisation listed above seem pretty valid, to me. That is the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation. To legalise means that you have to have the State step in and legislate how things will be done. I believe in New Zealand it is illegal to sell unprotected oral sex. On the one hand, I wouldn't mind if "covered" oral were the expected norm. On the other, my philosophical position on my right to do as I like with my own body is at odds with anyone telling me what I may do.

Found it.

Bit stunned by the comment below from an Amnesty report.

Should be aware of potential controversy (relations between IS and AIUK, religious groups who might have moral issues with this argument) NOTE: AI does not take position on morality

Can some one post the Amnesty link?

Is this the what about people who are too old/ugly/disabled/socially inept to find a partner and why should they be denied the experience of sex argument?

Lion I'm still keen to convert you to abolitionism! Will keep trying...

this article is interesting on the legal problems of legalising prostitution...

1. it could never comply with health and safety regulations
2. it would be impossible to enforce sexual harrassment legislation
3. providing a non discriminatory service to customers wouldn't be compatible with a woman's right to choose her sexual partners

logosjournal.com/2014/watson/

I'd add that it would be difficult in terms of job seekers too - would pimps advertise in job centres? Would teenagers apply for work experience in brothels?

(Sorry I seem encourage people to read articles in every post! My philosophy in life is usually: when in doubt, read an academic paper on it!)