Femsplaining

PetulaGordino

I was referring to the preeminence given to feminist ideology in discussions around gender issues. I certainly would never claim to have insight into internal feminist discussions (as I am not a feminist) and I would certainly not claim that feminism is the dominant voice in areas outside of gender discussions (because that would be a paranoid delusion).

I'm not arguing that it is necessarily wrong that feminism should be so dominant in the field of gender studies or discussion, only that it is considered by many to be the only valid format and therefore the traditional power dynamic in this very narrow limited area is to a limited extent reversed.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit

There are indeed cases where men try to justify appalling behaviour that can and should be easily dismissed, but it would be unjust to dismiss every report of a lived experience simply because it came from a man.

Perhap's we'd talk less about men's motivations for things if men didn't constantly try to explain away their shite behavior?

I wish I could say the same about your post 'ifyourehoppyandyouknowit ' as I did about a previous post

ApocalypseThen

Surely a black person experiencing the attitudes and behaviours of white people would only have a black persons perception of a white persons perception? And wouldn't their damaging experiences therefore alter their interpretation of that perspective?

While our culture is certainly steeped in analysis based on male perception, any female experience of that analysis would be utterly different to a mans. Indeed, the exclusionary nature of male discourse - men writing for men - would likely undermine any attempt by someone not a man to accurately perceive the experience being shared.

If this is true, then a woman claiming to know mens experiences is like someone looking through a window into a meeting that's taking place. They can see what's projected onto the screen, they can see that a discussion is taking place, but the actual words and views being shared are muted. They can make assumptions, but they have no means of verifying the truth. To then claim that they were aware of the outcome of this distant, separate discussion would likely be untrue.

Perhap's we'd talk less about men's motivations for things if men didn't constantly try to explain away their shite behaviour?

MephistophelesApprentice Thank you for such an intelligent an informative post

( Your post: Thu 05-Mar-15 15:00:05 )

what is the "dominant feminist narrative"

is it the narrative that dominates feminism(s), or the narrative that dominates generally is a feminist one?

dominant feminist narrative

Oh! My sides

This narrative has become widely accepted, so when feminists claim to 'understand' mens' motives or perspectives and reject or ignore any man who disagrees then that is femsplaining.

Yeah, our culture is thoroughly soaked in men's perspectives on just about every issue, so there probably is a fairly good reason why women think they have some notion of why men act the way they do. Even if we weren't being bludgeoned with information at all times, women have to take note to stay safe.

Certainly I don't think that a black people talking about the attitudes and behaviours of white people and the damage they do are speaking about something they know nothing of since our culture is also steeped in the white perspective which they can't help but experience.

Is the insult necessary?

That article wasn't femsplaining, it was a Guardian journo being a twerp. At least half of them are.

Also puzzled as to what other formats there are for the pursuit of gender equality (but not particularly hoping for enlightenment from Meph, who rarely says anything I find either interesting or enlightening).

Off the top of my head, active unqualified egalitarianism, active equalitarianism, meninism and masculinism.

It's interesting - I literally struggled to include the last two, because the dominant feminist narrative has subconsciously convinced me that they are to be disregarded and reviled. I have included them as they 'claim' to be about the pursuit of gender equality, though I have not examined them in any more than superficial detail.

Feminism claims to be the only valid format for the pursuit of gender equality

What are the other formats?

Femsplaining is very real, as is mansplaining.

Mansplaining is when a man is convinced he knows more about a particular subject than a woman due to being a man and talks over her. It's particularly bad when it relates to areas that can be said to belong to women, such as the life experience of women in society.

But feminists do do this as well, particularly when they claim to understand mens' motives or perspectives and usually do so in a particularly negative manner. While in wider society mens' voices are traditionally dominant, and therefore should endeavour to avoid talking over women, in discussion of gender issues the problem is reversed.

Feminism claims to be the only valid format for the pursuit of gender equality. It brooks no competition and actively derides and abhors any suggestion of an alternative. This narrative has become widely accepted, so when feminists claim to 'understand' mens' motives or perspectives and reject or ignore any man who disagrees then that is femsplaining.

Excellent case in point: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/men-urinate-street-hamburg-residents-urine

An article by a feminist writer about public urination and identifying the major source as being men. Perhaps true - but it is in the assumption of motives that the problem arises. While she admits that she and other female companions had engaged in public urination only out of desperation, she claims that men only do so out of laziness. She has no basis or insight to support or such an assumption, but in the context of a discussion on gender rights she believes that she can.

Men do not need to be heard MMM

Why not?

I thought femsplaining was when a woman explained something to a man that she assumes he doesn't know because he's a man.
Like when my aunt femsplained the washing machine to my adult brother, whose face indicated he was thinking 'yes well I know, I have been doing my own washing with my very own washing machine for 10 years, but OK'.
At least that's how I've taken it.

Can someone please find me a job where I get to play the professional victim? That sounds much more fun than actually being victimized and harassed at work/in life.

cbranje - it's rather hard to do analysis if you can only consider individuals. Wherever you see someone say 'men' you can replace it with 'men as a group' or 'men, not all men'

Which half of the population were you objecting to the generalization of by the way?

"The fact is that men have always and will always attempt to silence women's voices. "
"Many men assume that they will know more than women"

Why are you people so sexist??? Its not appropriate to generalize entire groups of people (ie half the population) in this manner. Its sexist and unfair. Modern feminists have become exactly what their predecessors have fought against.

Where one earth do you live louiseham where women dropping their kids off at school are talking about the patriarchy and rape culture?

Nobody ever talks to me about feminism in real life, ever. Like, I mean, EVER.

Yeah, of course...