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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

416 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 03/03/2015 23:20

...as they don't actually want to listen to women who disagree with them in any way.

I am not including common-or-garden arseholes here, as the list would be a billion posts long and the internet would explode. I am talking about the kind of man who writes a long, handwringing article in the Guardian about how we should all listen to feminists more, but then deletes most of the comments from actual feminists that are posted on it.

The two currently at the top of my very long List are:
Ally Fogg
Owen Jones

Nominations, please.

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HermioneWeasley · 09/03/2015 21:25

I have only heard Stavvers referenced on here, but she sounds like a loon. Unfortunately she has a lot of twitter followers I think, so an influential loon

FuckOffGroundhog · 09/03/2015 20:57

Well TRB you had a transwoman call Stavvers (who I am not the biggest fan of anyway) a bitch last month... and then when the tw was called a misogynist for using the word, she clamed that was misogyny because she is a woman and should be able to use the word and take it back.

Then you had Stavvers defend the transwoman's right to call her a bitch because Stavvers is a numpty.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/03/2015 20:44

I assumed groundhog!

FuckOffGroundhog · 09/03/2015 20:43

It's probably not an inaccurate assumption that they will get in a lot more trouble discriminating against a woman than a man.

Swap that.

TheBlackRider · 09/03/2015 20:34

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PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/03/2015 20:19

TBR... it's tempting when getting into these discussions to quote the Cheshire Cat from the Disney film.

FuckOffGroundhog · 09/03/2015 20:16

Laws regarding women and bodily autonomy are quickly slipping away in America ehric. Laws regarding trans women people's rights are very much inn the news. It's probably not an inaccurate assumption that they will get in a lot more trouble discriminating against a woman than a man.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/03/2015 20:12

Do you think some over zealous employee got a bit ban happy and acted in fear of being sued?
Whereas it's fine to discriminate against pregnant and Muslim women because they aren't so likely to sue as a man? Hmm

TheBlackRider · 09/03/2015 19:48

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FuckOffGroundhog · 09/03/2015 19:35

TERF.

How many actual women in this world claim to be radical feminists anyway? So why is TERF, a word synonymous with "transphobic" being used to label people? Men, actual transphobic people, people who are not even slightly of the feminists bent are all suddenly "trans exclusive RADICAL FEMINISTS".

Seems to me like it's just a bullshit word for people who hate radical feminism and want to tar it as hateful and give it a bad name because it queries their ideas of gender.

My feminism has nothing to do with people who have penises. I'm not going to label myself TERF because my feminism isn't about them.

I think places like Women's Aid and women's prisons should probably be open to transmen because they are socalised as women and are at significant risk from men while not being a significant risk to women. But I also understand that they probably won't wish to be welcome in those places. So I don't see myself as trans exclusive. I am penis exclusive though.

HermioneWeasley · 09/03/2015 19:04

I expected my post to be deleted. I shouldn't have had the rant as I think the points I made before the rant were valid, but as it stood it was offensive and I apologise to those who were offended.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/03/2015 18:50

Oh god.... the planet fitness awfulness...

He (and he calls himself a male) is not TG or TW. He is a cross dressing sissy (his own title) and a male slut-in-training (his own description)

He also has a fetish for women who work out, and messages them apropos of nothing and asks to pee on them.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 18:46

If you scroll about half way through the comments, you'll see details of the person concerned.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 18:45

AA

gendertrender.wordpress.com

ArcheryAnnie · 09/03/2015 18:25

rivetingrosie I'd be very grateful for the Planet Fitness links, if you have them to hand.

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FloraFox · 09/03/2015 14:31

AA yes, I've seen that too. In fact there is a vocal TA who is on the National Committee of Labour LGBT who works in male mode. That person was very vocal during the Rupert Read fiasco and it was never mentioned anywhere that they don't seem to live full time as a woman.

TheBlack you could have a third male-bodied person in a suit with a beard who may also be a woman, based on what they say they feel.

TheBlackRider · 09/03/2015 14:20

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rivetingrosie · 09/03/2015 14:19

This is very disturbing...

transgenderreality.com/2015/03/09/being-a-girl-is-like-playing-on-easy-mode-jealousy-of-women/

And yes Flora, the Planet Fitness thing is grim. There have been two previous incidents that make it even worse - 1) a woman who was kicked out of a Planet Fitness gym because her top had ridden up a little bit over her pregnant belly and the management said she was inappropriately dressed, and 2) a woman who was told she had to take her hijab off if she wanted to use the gym (I can post links to these stories if anyone wants them).

But transvestite wanting to use the women's changing room? Come on in!

ArcheryAnnie · 09/03/2015 14:16

Flora an increasing number of extreme trans activists, who ID as trans women, also spend time in what they call "boymode" - ie they present as male when it suits them, for professional purposes or whatever. But they still ID as trans women and demand access to women-only space, and would not describe themselves as transvestites.

(We are screwed coming AND going.)

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TheBlackRider · 09/03/2015 14:15

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FloraFox · 09/03/2015 14:07

As I understand it TheBlack tranvestism is something a "cis" man does i.e. he identifies as a man but wants to dress as a pornified version of a woman, so not related to gender ID. The distinction is in whether the person says they are a woman or a transvestite.

Don't know if anyone has been following the Planet Fitness story about the woman whose membership was revoked for complaining about a man in the changing room? It seems the person concerned is a transvestite (describes himself as male, has had no treatment for GID, doesn't live full time as a woman, posts on FB about strip bars and fetish activity). Apparently he wasn't even using the gym but was there with a friend and went into the locker room to hang up a bag Hmm .

ArcheryAnnie · 09/03/2015 14:06

(And I am fine with anyone however they identify wearing whatever the hell they like, dresses or combats - but the circumstances of this particular event meant that the women attending did have to wear sturdy, practical clothing.)

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ArcheryAnnie · 09/03/2015 14:02

Flora the thing that changed my mind was encountering the bizarre idea that people born and socialised as male were oppressed by people born and socialised as female, and thus females (whatever they identified as) were the oppressors. This is quite a recent idea, I think, and it's turned everything I considered upside-down.

I came out as a teen in the early 1980s. I remember being in a woman-only event which has getting a particularly heavy amount of abuse thrown at it, and someone who presented as male but was dressed as female visited us to offer solidarity. (I describe them like that because I have no idea how they identified, and I don't wish to be deleted. I knew quite a few people in the olden days who used the T-word to describe themselves - this is a slur, now, and denotes a specific identity, but then this would not have necessarily denoted the same thing.)

The reason I remember this particular instances out of so many LGBT events is that the contrast was particularly marked - all the women were in combat trousers, big boots, jeans, jumpers, many with cropped hair, nobody at all with makeup. This other person was in a long slinky dress, tights, full makeup and good shoes. And we were all together in solidarity - all of us would have been (and occasionally were) spat on in the street, had to be careful of getting a thump from a stranger. We had each others' backs. I cannot conceive of this person demanding that they stay, or even lead, our women only thing - it just would never have occurred to anyone present.

Now - from the extremist trans activists and allies there is no solidarity, only demands for subservience, and threats if we don't comply. They aren't my comrades and they aren't in the struggle with me - they've become part of the problem. They gaslight me as an oppressor, and demand with threats the spaces me and my sisters have spent many years carving out.

This is why I have been heartened so much for the solidarity from the growing crowd of gender-critical trans activists, who stand alongside me and mine, and we have each others' backs (without demanding we enroach on each others' space), in something like the way it was before. They are getting attacked, and we are getting attacked, and we support each other without all of us insisting our lives and needs are identical.

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TheBlackRider · 09/03/2015 13:38

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