Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

Extreme Feminist is an anti-male pro-female mentality, Extreme Misogynist is the exact opposite.
Ask yourself where that view concludes to?

You'll come out looking the same as the misogynists you're trying hard to expose. They've already exposed themselves they've done the hard work for you.
How do you react / neutralise and be proactive in the future? By thinking smart.

I'm a feminist and one that seeks equality from society as a basic standard, to change the status quo but I will endeavour to be involved without being callous.

i'm rising in the male dominated business world, my own personal experiences have shaped my views of the world and I'm inspired daily by those who achieve greatness despite adversity.

"Is that just "feminists need to be NICER and not get so angry" by another name?"

This ^

Is that just "feminists need to be NICER and not get so angry" by another name?

What hell's an "extreme feminist" when it's at home?

I'm struggling to think of how equality can be "extreme"

What is poignant for me is the blind ignorance of extreme views from polar opposite ends of the scale ie: Extreme Misogynist vs Extreme Feminist - both are in sense 'narcissistic' and will therefore never reach any viable nor reasonable solutions with their current opposing mindsets.

All the while we point fingers, antagonise, remain stubborn and hateful, attacking beligerently; the other side behaves the same in retaliation and thus the cycle continues exhaustingly.

It serves well to find neutral ground, to compromise and seek solutions, to be proactive and not add to the cycle of issues.

If you must go to war on something you believe in - make sure it is considered with purpose and aim for a positive outcome.
Respectfully challenging and encouraging a wider view would gain more action and therefore achieve better results.

Women always have to prove how something is sexist, and then when we do, we're accused by idiots of being negative and narcissistic.

Owen Jones is a muppet. And fast becoming an irrelevant one.

Ugh, bad form to TAAT but I'm surprised at the Owen Jones fans on MN who are expressing doubt that he's behaved badly towards feminists - "if it's true" etc. It's like when a POC says they've been a victim of racism and people go "oh yeah? PROVE IT". It's a sad day when the word of him is taken over the word of women who have seen how he behaves...

scallops

I've just seen the other thread pbp

She took him to the Feminist Cave .

puffins

Goodness....what did you do with mary????

Are they in the boot of your car????

Mary can be safely ignored now, he might be back, but won't be around today.

Haha whoops sorry Annie, cut n paste fail.

I stand by my views though, this thread seems a good a thread as any to air them :)

"Scandinavia has everything feminists wanted ..." No they don't. Apart from the fact all Scandinavian countries are not the same, none of them have equality for women. But Sweden and Norway have made more in roads in certain areas than the UK, for example.

I truly believe the primary issues we need to solve as a nation are:

1. Income Inequality and closing wealth gap between rich and poor. This impacts so many social aspects including trust, mental health & wellbeing. The notion of greed and "out for oneself, survival of the fittest" mentalities needs to change.
2. Equal pay for women and men in same roles. Hire based on individual capabilities only and not tolerate discrimination in the workplace.
3. Education should be much cheaper or in more cases FREE and accessible, backed and encouraged by government.
4. Promote Equal Opportunities for women in male dominated trades & industries.
5. Promote flexible work incentives for employers www.onrec.com/news/news-archive/employers-need-more-support-to-successfully-implement-flexible-working
6. Maternal, Paternal leave & childcare support focus; incentives and encouragement for fairness in raising children equally.
7. Focus on importance of relationship building and strengthening local communities.
8. Immigration should be viewed as a positive if migrants arrive in the UK with skills to work and live here as part of our culture, not just to sign up to benefits, send the money out of the country or to work black economy. Those seeking asylum should be assessed on individual basis but are first and foremost the responsibility of the country they are migrating from.
9. Build more quality homes. Key word there is 'homes' not business opportunities for landlords to make money from and sort out the housing crisis.

Feel free to add to the list :)

Is Scandinavia "the most gender polarised workforce"? That sounds hyperbolic in context of the world. Also are all Scandinavian countries being lumped together for that? And do they all have the same standards as Sweden, which is the only one I know anything about? Cos it seems unfair to lump together Scandinavia for an analysis but only consider the most progressive country's childcare policy iyswim.

I know lots of smart, capable women who would just rather get on than have to fight their way through a particularly masculine environment. It's boring to have to choose whether or not to challenge or put up with banter every day or to have to prove ones capacity " despite" ones sex. Women not applying for jobs at your firm don't say anything about the innate qualities of women, Mary, it just tells you how your firm is perceived by female job seekers.

Mary, has the current drive to increase the participation of women in construction passed you by? It's all over the trade press, construction related Twitter/Facebook /LinkedIn etc.

And a big yes to OutSelf's post. That's where the glass ceiling lies for most women in this country, one. Can't speak for others.

hi OutsSelf

Scandinavia has everything feminists wanted yet the workplace in those countries is the most gender polarized of any modern country.

Even with quotas and gender neutral terms, toys, a incredible daycare program and maternity/paternity leave most can only dream of women chose to go into part time work and care work en masse.

I am part owner of a landscaping and groundwork company, i spend all of my working day around men on site and am licensed for and can drive pretty much any site vehicle in the UK and while i will not deny the satiation i get when i am approached by a work crew asking for my help because something needs doing and i am qualified on the plant the only other women i see onsite are the occasional clerical staff in porta-cabins.

Once i tipped a flatbed HGV that was driven by a woman and she told me that she had been taught to drive a HGV by a woman called Carol who worked out of the super sausage in Northampton but hardly knew any other women in her line of work and none in mine.

I have worked in the trade for over 20 years now and never had a woman apply for anything but clerical work and i make sure that my employment ads are for both men and women. In the past i have put ads for just women up for a position if the agent permitted it and never had a reply unless the job description was vague enough to think it maybe cleaning or clerical work rather than site-work.

I agree choices do not happen in a vacuum but i am not sure that asking men to do less at work and more at home or be less determined in advancing their careers is going to work because it did not in Scandinavia that did all it could to create that sort of environment.

I am certainly open to suggestions if you have any and if you have any links to articles about how to increase participation rates for women in areas of the workplace they are underrepresented i will certainly take a look.

Owen Jones, do your homework.

Can I nominate all the men who SAY they are feminists but don't blink when they have children, never take time off to do childcare, don't even bother to ask for flexi/ compressed/ reduced hours to look after their children, who don't know what vaccinations their children have or what their favourite food is, or whether they are due for a dental appointment or whether their children have clean pyjamas for tonight etc. etc. And they explain to you that it's cos they are the higher earner without reflecting on the fact that they have 10 years on their DP and are clocking up ever more as her career takes a hit for the kids. Those men should fuck off. If more men stepped up to family life the gender pay gap would be reduced and I for one would have a fighting chance of competing on a level playing field at work. And fuck off Tim wozname in the Guardian, women are making childcare choices in the context of gender pay gap, men not doing enough in the family, men being more senior and higher earning at the point they have children because they tend to have younger partners. "Women's choices" do not happen in a vacuum, they are made in the context of odds stacked against them. Do desist from missing the whole fucking point of left wing structural analysis

This is funnnnyyyyyyyy - feministsunknown.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/owen-joness-diary/

I don't really understand why, but it seems like women sans penis are never cool (sad face).