Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

But surely that goes without saying? We're all a bundle of our own particular privileges and lack of privileges and may have both been splained at and splained in our time.

I don't think most feminists are 'transplaining' - they are rejecting a definition of women from a group of radical trans activist women, and they've got a right to do that (I think this group is not representative of the whole trans community but they shout the loudest and are having real political impact)

These activists say that being a woman has nothing to do with the biological body you are born with, your experience going through life in that body and your socialization from birth as a girl. What's left is a 'feeling' - if I feel I'm a woman, I'm a woman. That's incredibly offensive, everything about being a woman is erased except the 'pink brain' - which is a myth, but one which has historically always been used to keep women down.

There are no trans men saying 'I am a real man,' assuming the right to enter men-only spaces and demanding that gay men have sex with them. That sense of entitlement is only coming from a group of trans women - those that are biologically men and have been socialized as boys.

The denial of biology has lead to 'penis isn't male' and 'FGM is a cissexist term' and other beliefs which are so ridiculous they'd make you laugh if it weren't for the fact that they are being taken seriously by everyone who doesn't want to be called a TERF.

There are plenty of trans women who reject the trans activists' claims too, some of whom challenged Owen Jones and were lumped together with the rest of us as 'transphobes.'

To deny women's lived reality and erase our biology (and history of persecution because of that biology) is sexist and misogynistic. One oppressed group can't stamp on another oppressed group in order to elevate themselves. I'm not surprised the rad fems are angry.

I find it extraordinary that women talking about feminism and women's experience could be described as splaining.

Really demonstrates the degree to which women have been shut out of discussing what either feminism or being a woman means.

Interesting to hear women being mansplained at makes you laugh Kim

Are you suggesting that one of the least privileged groups in society, lesbians, are as llikely to be listened to when they "splain", that their voices are as loud and as powerful as those of white men mansplaining Kim?

There's a reason Owen Jones is not listening to lesbian women. And to radical feminists. It's to do with power. There's a reason he doesn't feel it necessary to properly inform himself as to what's going on in the debate the way he does on every other subject he ever weighs in on.

It's only women. And only lesbian women at that. They can splain as much as they like, he can't hear their voices because he doesn't have to.

Kim listening to trans* voices is important, of course it is. However, so is listening to lesbian voices, don't you agree? And when lesbians tell a certain type of man that something is happening, he could perhaps listen, instead of yelling TERF and sticking his fingers in his ears.

In case anyone missed it on the Glosswitch thread, her great take on this:

glosswatch.com/2015/03/04/from-thinking-like-rapists-to-thinking-like-homophobes-a-feminist-backlash-update/

AskBasil I completely agree. It's striking the difference in his approach to this issue compared with other issues.

I am one of those women who thought OJ was a Good Thing, so encouraging to see someone so young be so clued up and progressive and well-read, blah blah.

I remember saying to a friend of mine that one of the reasons he's so good is because when he goes on Question Time or whatever, he's always done the reading. He's got the figures and facts at his fingertips and I suspect that that's because unlike your average white middle class straight bloke in the media, he's working class, gay and young and so knows he has to work harder than the privileged bastards who sit there spouting off expecting every ill-informed thing they say to be take seriously (and being taken seriously as well, no matter how unevidenced or plain downright incorrect their statements are).

But it all falls down when it comes to women doesn't it. He doesn't need to do the reading, he doesn't need to do the research, he doesn't need to be on top of his subject, because it's only women he's arguing with. And it's the most despised sector of women - radical feminists and/ or lesbians. So no need to put the effort in he has to with the people who matter. And no need to listen to us. So suddenly he turns into every other man we've ever encountered.

I'd image it's also fine to be in favour of lesbians having to give up their right to decide on who they want as sexual partners without qualification, but it's another matter when it's actually meeeeee having to do sex with fish.

Often there's been speculation here about men being pressurized into sex with female bodied people against their will and why that never really happens. It's partly because it's inconceivable to men that this pressure would apply to them.

He knew about it, there's no doubt of that. He just fails to see lesbians as being as important as gay men. Lesbian lives are just not as valid as gay men's lives either.

So, I'm going for the hypocrite option. It's not ok for people to say things he perceives to be homophobic and it really ISN'T ok to be homophobic but it's just dandy for him to be lesbophobic as hell.... yeah, hypocrisy.

I am gobsmacked by his refusal to see it. Either he is very thick (which I don't think he is) or he is a stonking hypocrite, or he is deep in cognitive dissonance.

and I know that wasn't very nuanced but, really? He really doesn't get the cunnilingus comparison?!

Owen Jones is a fucking tool. His comments on Twitter the past few days are priceless.

Oh yeah, Dr Christian doesn't really qualify for this thread does he, him and his pink and blue brains.

Ah yes. Dr Christian and his encouragement to his cronies followers to pile on to women he disagrees with. What a dude!

After his comments on rape a few years ago, I think it's safe to say Dr Christian is a class-A prick.

Owen Jones!! For silencing every woman who objected to his Guardian piece (about listening to women!!) by labeling them a TERF or a transphobe. And for his total shock and outrage at the suggestion that as a gay man he might enjoy a bit of cunnilingus with a trans man, whilst apparently being fine about lesbians being called terfs if they don't want to suck the cocks of trans women.

And Dr Christian for the same silencing of any woman who questions his ridiculous Penis Isn't Male tweets. Remind me not to book an appointment with him next time I have any problems with my lady bits.