Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

The MRA's always go on about how men are raped too, mainly in prison, but how many of them are members of the Howard League? How many of them are working for prison reform? Because it is in prison that the biggest problem for men re rape arises. What are they doing about it? FA

I agree FuckOff - it's not ok that anyone, man or woman, should be subjected to violence in prison. And when they are there because they've been convicted of a non-violent offence it is even worse.

The problem for me is that the prison system is dangerous for all men. We need to sort that out. That's a real problem "mras" should be addressing. It is not the job of women to take on the risk of people socialized as men.

theblackrider Would I? Definitely any with a violent history of any kind yes.

Those who don't, I'll be honest I don't feel comfortable with the idea. I think those socialized as men are more likely to commit abuse and I think being put in a women's prison, well it's a strange and artificial environment and men's prisons are rife with sexual assault. I don't want to bring that to women's prisons. I think provisions should be made for them, but I don't think the risk should be then shouldered by women.

I am personally really against any one who has owned a penis in a women's prison. Ideally I dont think there should be male guards as it leaves too much risk for abuse. But certainly not prisoners. And not any with any history of violence against anyone.

Unisex loos are a-ok by me - preferable if anything! I nice little room, with a sink and a coat hook and a floor-to-ceiling locking door... the dream!

The really difficult issue is prisons and DV shelters. Unisex cannot cannot cannot be the solution to this. Though I understand why many trans women don't get surgery (expense, complications), I think we just have to have a no penises policy. For me, post-op trans women would be ok in these spaces as long as they didn't have a history of violence against women (this is being called 'Allison's Law' but some people, after Allison Woolbert who was recently found to have raped a young family member before transitioning). Pre-op trans women would have to have their own separate shelters unfortunately.

Makes me think of a hilarious tweet I saw a few months ago when new restrictions were introduced on porn made in the UK. On of the sex acts that was banned was "Penetration by any object 'associated with violence'" and one radfem tweeted "omg I can't believe the government just banned penises in porn". lololololol

This is for you, please exchange the word song for thread though, yeah?

I always wonder why transactivists blame feminists when they should shove the blame where it lies

Because it's easier, I imagine. There are no consequences for blaming women, but men get violent and that's when it gets real.

Ultimately, we can talk about creating unisex locking loos all we like but the real problem - male violence - has to be dealt with. It's the only solution for women, children and trans people.

Hi Ally! I know you've been reading the thread, however, you seem to have missed the point.

No one cares who's worse out of you or Owen Jones or Richard Dawkins, the point is that you're all horrible human beings.

The gender neutral loos would have to be cleaned much more often than the women's ones are at present though, because men's loos seem to stink all the time.

Single person unisex cubicles would also solve the other problem women have with public loos, that there are never enough of them designated strictly for women.

If they could also be like the ones in German Restplatz, that would be fabulous too.

I think this must be easier for trans men, as they could happily use the women's loos and be assumed to be a butch woman, most women having no compulsion to assault or abuse butch women generally. However trans women going into the mens loo are very likely to be abused or harassed because lots of men find threats to gender norms to be unacceptable and deserving of violence.

Yet that somehow becomes the responsibility of women who are expected to accept male bodied people into their spaces.

Fwiw I don't care if a toilet is unisex/all genders as long as there are no urinals. The only problem I have found with my university recently going all gender in the loos is the increase in skid marks. However I still expect women's loos to be female only.

I think unisex cubicles and locks are better in general.

I would think most people would feel scared going into the set of loos (or the changing room, or whatever) that they've been told is 'wrong' for most of their life - think about it, even little kids feel as if it's taboo to accidentally go into the 'wrong' door. So there is a sense it's hugely important, which is going to put you on edge above and beyond anything else - and frankly, I wouldn't fancy going into a men's loo and hoping they wouldn't take exception to me.

Blackrider you would almost think they were men wouldn't you?

I have no issue with people who want to present as the other gender but don't want to take dangerous hormones or have genital surgery. But proudly holding on to the outward signifiers of your birth sex whilst proclaiming you are actually not that gender at all, that's weird.

flirtin

zozzij I'm so sorry you got raped.

It's so difficult to know how to deal with both your situations without one of you feeling scared and upset. Clearly the women's toilets are the safer place to be overall - I can't see how unisex solves the problem - but obv that doesn't help zozzij.

AskBasil good blog post