Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

It referred to Men in dresses
I think

I'm guessing that someone reported it.....

Thanks for sharing. Hermione I saw your post before it was deleted and I agree with what you've said but not that it was transphobic.

I think a lot of us come at this in a similar way and I think a lot of people who go on about TERFs know this too. There seems to be an increasing trend of denying the humans are sexually dimorphic, including that arse Dr Christian. This is concerning for young people being taught not just that there is such a thing as a "gender identity" and it is the sole determining factor of womanhood but also that humans are on a spectrum of biological sex.

Can I ask ArcheryAnnie , Ehric and anyone else who cares to answer, how did you come to change your position on this?

I came to this topic with the sense that trans people had a hard enough time and could be great allies with women against male violence and against punishing gender roles for women. I was in favour of transwoman having access to women's spaces and being imprisioned with women.

I felt that their burden is a heavy one and most likely, they just wanted to live quietly and peacefully as women, posing no threat but finding themselves threatened. I still think this is probably true of the vast majority of transwoman.

The obscenity of the cotton ceiling was the thing that made me look closer. It's disgusting and a non-trivial insult to lesbians, not just that, it's an attempt to remove a fundamental human right from them. I was shocked by it, by the perversity and violence of the concept.

That led me to read more about what they demand of all women, and I found that hard to process, too. It's an extension of the cotton ceiling, really, an attempt to overrule women's basic integrity where we can no longer discuss who and what we are, how and why oppression happens to us, a refusal if our biology, an attempt to force performed femininity on us as the defining act of womanhood.

Flora yes I noticed that too. He tried to brush it off at first but then took the criticism more seriously.

He ignored the criticism from rad FEMS then labeled them as terfs. He felt v v comfortable ignoring/insulting women.

It's bonkers isn't it slug ? Feels like for some trans women that it's a whole new level of misogyny - like they think they can be better women than biological women?

It's hard to say how many trans women really and truly "pass", but I can only say that in my anecdotal experience, I've never met a trans women who wasn't obviously trans, but we politely go along with this lie because we get that being trans must be really hard, and we don't want to be hurtful or make life more difficult for a marginalised group, and then this shit happens.

Flora, I have just come to realise that being female is a biological condition, so cannot be changed (outward markers can be mimicked through surgery and hormones but it doesn't change the basic biology) and being a woman is a culturally constructed condition. I just cannot accept that there is such a thing as a female brain, because it undermines everything I believe about gender and feminism, I think it's a pernicious concept and has been used to justify the most heinous subjugation of my sex.
If there is no female and male brain, then it stands to reason that the idea of biologically male but psychologically female is a flawed concept.
It's more than possible to alter physical markers of gender and adopt culturally constructed gendered behaviour, which means that you can live as the gender which doesn't conform to your biological sex. It's fine to believe that you would be much happier living as the opposite gender, and take steps to make that happen. I don't think it's wrong to do so, and I respect people's rights to do so if they feel it is necessary for their happiness. I will not deliberately mis gender anyone, regardless of their biological sex, and I acknowledge the existence of the state of being transgender as a psychological condition and belief system. But I don't believe that identifying as female makes you female. A penis is by definition male, and if we start saying that a female penis can exist we make the whole concept of female and women meaningless.

I do wonder, Hermoine, why some of these trains activists fight so hard to be acknowledged as something they so obviously despise. There's whole levels of self loathing and delusion in there that I don't want even to begin to unpick.

By the way, I get that my little rant at the end probably IS transphobic, but I don't think disagreeing with those 3 things is transphobic.

TheXx I think the difference with that schooling is that he very quickly agreed to meet the people who schooled him to hear their concerns and work out how he could help improve BME voices being heard. With the trans issue he dismissed everyone, including respected journalists as bigots and transphobes without even reading what they had to say. If anything that make what he done even worse.

Can I ask ArcheryAnnie , Ehric and anyone else who cares to answer, how did you come to change your position on this?

TheBlackRider I believe there's a long history of gay men excluding lesbians from LGBT movements. I don't know much about the history of this, but it's certainly something a lot of lesbians feel very strongly about. Owen Jones is part of a venerable tradition (trigger warning: sarcasm)

Yes but whose side is it? (insert multiple emoticons)

I knew you'd recognise me, Puffins.

The thread has moved on some what but if anyone is interested (or surprised) Owen Jones has been schooled on twitter again because of a non sense piece he wrote on the conflict in DRC.

He tried to employ the same tactics he used to silence rad FEMS but came up short.

I'm very grateful for this board in the way it has helped me understand the trans position. I have always had difficulties in reconciling my understanding of being transgender with my feminism. I have told myself that self identification is paramount and that if someone identifies as female then they are female but I haven't been able to believe it. It has been a kind of cognitive dissonance. But because I am kind, and inclusive, and do not wish to be transphobic, I have maintained my position outwardly whilst inwardly feeling it was wrong.
I still don't believe I am transphobic and I am also grateful to the trans authors of some of the blogs linked to who have described their experience and world view with sense, logic and clarity.