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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does cognitive dissonance perpetuate misogyny, or just reflect it?

216 replies

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 08:45

Hi all.

I am aware the title is feminist jargon. By 'cognitive dissonance', I mean, that state where you subconsciously hold two incompatible views. Eg., you know perfectly well that, statistically, most rapes do not happen in dark alleyways, and yet, you feel more frightened there than with your random male friend.

As I understand it, holding a position of cognitive dissonance is tiring and stressful. I wondered if it actually makes us transfer blame onto women, so that we don't just hold these contradictory positions about gender, we actually absorb the idea they're somehow women's fault?

I am thinking this because I remember going through that stage (which I think a lot of women mention) of feeling, first, angry about feminism and angry that women were 'rocking the boat' by challenging all my dearly-held cognitive dissonances.

Now, it could be that cognitive dissonance is just a reaction to living in a misogynistic society. Or, it could be that there's something in cognitive dissonance itself, that pushes us to shift the blame onto the subject of the dissonance (ie., women/gender roles). What do you think?

NB - as you might tell from my tortured syntax, this is a research question I am working on. Please be gentle!

OP posts:
LurcioAgain · 26/02/2015 11:58

At the risk of being flippant... Cognitive dissonance: because in the real world we can't put sexist boss in a gimp mask. (God, I love the film 9 to 5 - why are there no films that good coming out of Hollywood now? Yet another example of how sexism has become insidious and under the radar and the fight for equality is going backwards.)

GibberingFlapdoodle · 26/02/2015 11:56

The classic marker of abuse is being informed, one way or another and usually several times a day, that it: isn't happening; is your own fault; you deserve it. That gives people very conflicting emotions. I wouldn't say all abusers are necessarily resolving into thinking abuse is ok either, like I said it's bottle-and-lash-out, at least some of it.

People can also go through experiences they'd rather forget or re-write, or have re-written for them. That can give you a very nasty mental health problem.

That's what I think anyway.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 11:42

That makes sense, lurcio, thank you!

This is really helpful.

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LurcioAgain · 26/02/2015 11:38

Oops, cross post with Jeanne - my "both" was meant as an answer to OP, not a response to the abuse question.

LurcioAgain · 26/02/2015 11:36

Both, I'd say. It's a negative feedback loop. You're in what seems like an impossible situation (misogynist boss at work, say), cognitive dissonance becomes your coping strategy (well documented in psychology literature - because you're powerless, it's this or go nuts), the cognitive dissonance then causes you to shift the blame onto other people (it's not him, it's Brenda in accounts being all bra-burny, and I'm doing fine because I'm sensible enough to laugh at his "banter"), which in turn means his misogyny never gets challenged and gets even worse.

Now of course, it may be that the situation only "seems" impossible, and that by collectively challenging it you could deal with the real problem, him. But on an individual level this is immensely risky. A little bit of cognitive dissonance plus throwing Brenda to the sexist lions brings an instant, if modest personal payoff (modest because it's never as big a payoff as misogynist boss is getting from his behaviour, but you're a hell of a lot better off than Brenda). Collective action has a potentially high pay-off (you end up with a workspace where everyone gets treated equally, hopefully via the sacking of misogynist boss), but equally carries an extremely high risk (you and Brenda are out of a job, and bringing sex discrimination cases for constructive dismissal is a very uncertain process).

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 11:33

That is interesting about abuse.

But I don't see how that is a cognitively dissonant response - unless you mean, having internalised the damage of abuse, you resolve the cognitive dissonance by deciding abuse isn't abusive (and becoming an abuser)?

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GibberingFlapdoodle · 26/02/2015 11:30

Definite short-term advantage to getting angry over upset if a bloke walks up to you and tries something on. In anger you can hit back (if not too surprised, in which case you'd freeze).

Men, well, at a guess they are socialised to be more likely to bottle and then lash out as well. So they'd get a double whammy. Probably why statistically male abuse victims go on to abuse while females find themselves becoming victims. Also that puts them on to the depression route.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 11:23

Ah, yes, that's a fair point. Especially about it being a barrier between you and getting upset.

So what about male cognitive dissonance? Because it seems as if we've got on to talking about cognitive dissonance just amongst feminists/women, but I don't really know how men experience it.

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GibberingFlapdoodle · 26/02/2015 11:21

But it is a bad path to be on in the long term.

GibberingFlapdoodle · 26/02/2015 11:21

Why be angry? Because it isn't that tiring initially, it can be quite energising, at least in the short term. And it is a barrier between you and getting upset, which is tiring.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 10:11

Ouch. That's terrifying about your friend (and, I would say, odd that she saw this as 'feminist' - at least to me).

I do know about confirmation bias. I think that must be a big part of it all.

But then, I can't balance it up (all these negative things) with the positive feeling you get when you do get past an instance of cognitive dissonance. Personally, it's felt hugely freeing to do that, and I did have the sense that I'd unconsciously been putting a huge amount of mental effort into sustaining the dissonance. Does that make sense?

So I was thinking that maybe sustaining the dissonance is also what stresses us out and makes us angry.

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vinegarandbrownpaper · 26/02/2015 10:08

For example a friend of mine was so aggressively 'feminist' she saw and raged against risks and sexism that clearly wasn't there, for example being near drunk young chavvy men she would say 'we are going to be beaten up' 'they said I had a nice arse bastards' etc she was convinced people were 'always' raped in this park or another and got really angry if anyone said anything different. It took her a long time to enjoy living anywhere because of the risks she had read about and transposed onto everything around her.

The sad thing is that if you tell people at work, for example, that they are disadvantaged, they (as a group average) will under perform and thus open up a justification for slowing progression and lowering wages for that group (theres workplace reasearch about this) the work around working class self-imposed aspiration limiting and rural self-imposed aspiration limiting is another example the 'city jobs are 'fantasies' for regional rural poor but 'possible realities' for urban wealthy, even where similar low quals. form the route in.

I think this can be transposed to feminist dissonance too perhaps?

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 10:05

Why, though? Why do we like our own anger? Because it must be so tiring, mustn't it, to keep being angry?

I take your point about this uncertainty about trusting yourself being a really uncomfortable issue.

But then, it's not perfectly logical, is it? Because even while you're giving in to doubts when you start unpicking cognitive dissonance, it ought to be reassuring because you're realizing you're getting closer to the truth?

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vinegarandbrownpaper · 26/02/2015 09:57

People like the comfort blanket of their own constructed anger. The more false that belief is, the more aggressively its defended, particularly whenit is at most risk of disappearing.

Partially this is because it reminds you that you should have thought differently in the past and not self limited to the degree you have, and its this feeling of not being sure that you can trust yourself to advise you on the best action that makes dissolving 'comfort' dissonance so stressful..

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 09:44

Yes, that's a very good point, thanks. So there is a cognitive dissonance issue, and an underlying female socialization issue.

I have noticed that women on here (including me) often seem to get really upset by the challenging of cognitive dissonance. And maybe we do struggle so much because we're not socialized to go on the attack and be angry? I'm not sure.

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GibberingFlapdoodle · 26/02/2015 09:22

Initially it seems odd, but cognitive dissonance certainly leads people into some very tangled logical webs as they desperately try to keep up the two contrary ideas. They can end up being barely rational on the subjects they're avoiding, certainly very confused. And then on an emotive subject (as it usually is - else why bother) that can lead to emotions being bottled up and lashing out fairly randomly. So I can see that the blame scenario might happen.

One thing about being female though is that we're socialised to avoid lashing out if possible - I suppose that could make an eventual problem larger.