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Original poster

Does cognitive dissonance perpetuate misogyny, or just reflect it?

216 replies

JeanneDeMontbaston · 26/02/2015 08:45

Hi all.

I am aware the title is feminist jargon. By 'cognitive dissonance', I mean, that state where you subconsciously hold two incompatible views. Eg., you know perfectly well that, statistically, most rapes do not happen in dark alleyways, and yet, you feel more frightened there than with your random male friend.

As I understand it, holding a position of cognitive dissonance is tiring and stressful. I wondered if it actually makes us transfer blame onto women, so that we don't just hold these contradictory positions about gender, we actually absorb the idea they're somehow women's fault?

I am thinking this because I remember going through that stage (which I think a lot of women mention) of feeling, first, angry about feminism and angry that women were 'rocking the boat' by challenging all my dearly-held cognitive dissonances.

Now, it could be that cognitive dissonance is just a reaction to living in a misogynistic society. Or, it could be that there's something in cognitive dissonance itself, that pushes us to shift the blame onto the subject of the dissonance (ie., women/gender roles). What do you think?

NB - as you might tell from my tortured syntax, this is a research question I am working on. Please be gentle!

OP posts:
Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:19

Oh, that sounds great, yes. Orbach is one of those writers I've never read, and I have this vague feeling I know the gist of the popular bits that people talk about, you know? So I should get down to it properly.

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almondcakes · 27/02/2015 22:17

J, what about psychoanalysis by Orbach? That would look at discomfort.

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:17

Night buffy. Thanks for the comments.

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BuffytheThunderLizard · 27/02/2015 22:14

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Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:14

Good point, almond.

It is quite personal, though, isn't it? You're a bright person. Your internal narrative is going to be complex.

I have noticed this with buffy sometimes (excuse me being personal, but you're a good example). She sometimes ends up analysing her own posting style while she's posting about posting style. It's as if there are just more intersecting layers going on than most people have.

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Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:12

I am looking into a lot of that, buffy - I've been reading Liz Kelly on rape, and a few others, which are absolutely not queer theory type stuff, and very, very rigorous.

But I still find it hard, because they're analysing real life, and real people, whereas I am doing it at a remove, because I'm interested in all of these narratives (not just actual fiction, but also rape myths which are stories). And that's quite hard to think about, or it is for me.

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almondcakes · 27/02/2015 22:11

I actually think the opposite of Bonsoir. People hold an internal narrative that is far more complex than the complexities of reality. People hold all manner of fantastical,imaginative, religious views - things to do with the psyche or whatever.

I mean, I'm an atheist. I still get really scared at night when walking the dogs that a demon will possess me.

BuffytheThunderLizard · 27/02/2015 22:10

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Bonsoir · 27/02/2015 22:09

I think you lot are making an absolute mountain out of a molehill!

BuffytheThunderLizard · 27/02/2015 22:09

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Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:08

Well, simplistic thought processes usually are easier. But that's the problem, isn't it?

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Bonsoir · 27/02/2015 22:06

Think about it, Jeanne: it's a lot easier than you seem to think!

PetulaGordino · 27/02/2015 22:05

Well I crossed with everyone there!

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 22:04

I think that's a bit simplistic, bonsoir.

pet - no, that makes perfect sense, I think.

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PetulaGordino · 27/02/2015 22:02

I can definitely see the minimising conflict aspect mentioned upthread. We can identify sexist, racist, homophobic behaviour etc when demonstrated or described at a remove from ourselves, but when confronted directly shy away from doing anything about it. So then we have to find an explanation for why we did nothing, which is when we scrabble for reasons why this particular instance wasn't really sexist/racist/homophobic, or why that person isn't that bad really. We have to justify our own behaviour in the face of bad behaviour. But that means that we must perceive a risk in the conflict (or is it the conflict itself that is the risk - the choice between conflict with another individual or conflict within ourselves and we choose the latter). And of course there can be big risks - violence, abuse, death. But also other things we also fear like ostracism, victimisation, ridicule, scorn (which likely fall under abuse but ykwim). I'm thinking here of course less of the example in the OP than of te things that Bertie is describing where we excuse someone else's behaviour. But actually it can apply to the example of putting aside the knowledge of how many male intimate partners abuse or kill women, because given how much emphasis is put on a woman "catching and holding" a man, that avoidance of conflict with societal approval is preferable to accepting the fact that it may be "safer" to be alone.

This is a bit longwinded and writing as I'm thinking so apologies if it reads badly or doesn't make sense, but I'm trying to say that perhaps society benefits from people holding conflicting thoughts because people want to be part of society and will (in general) unconsciously prioritise that above resolving the cognitive dissonance they might feel

Bonsoir · 27/02/2015 22:01

People usually have a narrative "about life/the world that is a lot simpler than the complexities of reality. Coming up against a credible counter narrative is not an unusual occurrence. Whether or not you take on board the inherent difficulty of holding several slightly contradictory narratives in your consciousness is a function of intelligence and education, whether you are woman or man...

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 21:56

whatwould, I am still not at all sure I am grasping it!

I think part of my difficulty here is that I want to be able to work out a feminist understanding of how we respond to upsetting things - men and women both. And most of the work in this area that I know of, is pomo queer theory bollocks, which talks about epistemic disturbance and cognitive dissonance and disruptive discourses, and does so in that faintly creepy 'I'm a male academic with a giant boner' pomo queer theory way.

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BuffytheThunderLizard · 27/02/2015 21:56

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BuffytheThunderLizard · 27/02/2015 21:53

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WhatWouldFreddieDo · 27/02/2015 21:52

XpostSmile

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 27/02/2015 21:51

Yes, oddfodd but what I think op was trying to understand is why that discomfort is maintained in society, why it's useful - but it's taken me about 300 posts to grasp it Wink

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 27/02/2015 21:51

YY, I agree about that scary feeling.

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OddFodd · 27/02/2015 21:49

And I think there might be something in that, What. That feeling of tension as 'normal-state' is wiped away the moment that you acknowledge the CD. So you hold onto it because it's safe.

I do also think that there is a massive scary thing when you realise that feminism is right. You read it on posts on here all the time - women who read FWR and suddenly BOOM! and the whole foundations of their world are rocked. CD is familiar.

I suppose it's like when DV victims go back to their abuser

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 27/02/2015 21:46

Yup, masochists all of usSmile

OddFodd · 27/02/2015 21:45

Surely holding two opposing beliefs is in itself discomforting? Which is exactly what the OP said in her ... err ... OP Confused