YA author's anti-lesbian,anti-women comments

Yeah, fair comment.

It's popular because obviously something in it appeals to women. Perhaps that thing is a desire to explore a submissive side or it could simply be a desire to escape into a world of fiction. As well a desire for a fictional character or situation doesn't necessarily mean you want that person or thing to happen in real life. But a lot of women do feel that 50 Shades has given them a window to talk about their desires. That in itself is no bad thing I suppose but when it gets appropriated by the mass misogynistic media, then it becomes damaging to perpetuate the untrue stereotype that most women secretly hanker after a Christian Gray type.

It isn't the fault of the author of 50SOG that the book is so popular. I'm sure there are thousands of better and worse written pieces of pornographic fanfic out there.

Why was it so popular is a better question, I think.

Mmmmm agreed Puffins Mr Gray is a bit of a prick as I said. The fact this book was written by a woman does surprise me a little but then again often some of the most vile misogyny in our society comes from women. Another thing which is often forgotten and needs to be addressed if we are to make advances in equality. Women need to stop hating each other. To be honest if we all stood together in sisterhood men wouldn't be able to get away with much of the appalling behaviour that they do, especially in the Western world. Half the population is a considerable number when it comes to people power you know, social change, even social revolutions have been effectedby far less. The problem is apathy, most women don't feel sufficiently enraged to act or demand change. If we truly are to be seen as equal citizens in a social sense we are going to need to be the ones to demand that change. The question is are most of us prepared to do that, do we want to etc?

No, it doesn't make you anti feminist if you enjoy BDSM.

However, almost every person who lives that lifestyle who has commented has said that 50SOG does NOT represent BDSM, it represents abuse and rape. Various organisations who support women in the aftermath of violent and abusive relationships also agree that it doesn't represent the lifestyle, but is a poorly written story about abuse and about the old boring trope of a how 'good woman' will change a violent abusive twatbadger.

How there can be any argument about what this clearly ignorant man said I don't know. It's not even a feminist issue to be honest it's a humanitarian one. Any decent human being should find what he said ridiculous, superficial, venomous, and judgemental. That's for starters, as for the women if they were calling men who entered the cinema to see 50 Shades rapists then clearly that's ridiculous. But as the law would see it, if they have stated they did not say that, and if there is no evidence proving they did say that then the word of one witness does not trump a group of witnesses. As for Christian Gray being a rapist I haven't read the book, I did see the film and I don't believe he raped anyone in that. Anastasia didn't enjoy being flogged in one scene that I recall but she did agree to it. At no time did she say no apart from afterwards, when incidentally she tells him she will not "let him do that to her again." In other words, she gave her permission, then she decided she didn't like it, she never asked him to stop during the act. Not rape in my opinion and I am a feminist, a humanist and a woman. But he was a complete and utter knob end that no sane woman would ever want to go near surely. As for the whole is 50 Shades misogynistic thing, well, yes and no. The character Christian Gray is extremely misogynistic but it certainly doesn't make you anti-feminist if you enjoy BDSM with a consenting partner. You can be a feminist and still get your sexual rocks off as a sub you know, the two aren't anathema, and you can be male and sexually dominant without being a rapist or a raging misogynist.

TheGirl, I don't think DoThey is RM. He posts similar stuff on various FWR threads.

I believe so, yes. He dismissed the lesbian groups which were suggested to him out of hand. (The ones I saw, anyway)

He's given donations to mixed gay groups though, hasn't he? Not women's groups, though it was women he attacked.

RTFT

While I don't agree with what he said, saying he "looks like a rapist" isn't going to help anything.

And I thought anyone could potentially be a rapist? Is there really a set image for "what they look like"?

Oh, look, a victim card. How unexpected.

Bless you. Do you also use the expression race card when you know you've made a stupid an illogical connection when race is involved?

You said that, on balance, despite not having a single clue who said what to whom you were going to give a man who made really nasty suggestions about a 14 year old child needing more pricks in their lives the benefit of the doubt over women who were actually there. Women who have stated that at no time did they accuse him of being a rapist. Please, tell me what other construction could be put on this, other than you believe the women to be lying... which would suggest that you are inclined to believe women lie...

You do seem to have a serious vested interest in defending a man who has a proven record of misogyny, racism and homophobia. Why might that be, do you think?

And why should I answer your pointless hypothetical questions about slags (shudder)

It's not a comparison at all

Dotheyfloat are you ok dear?

Are you actually RM?

You are going to great lengths to defend him if not...

Your reaction seems disproportionate and really quite aggressive, Dotheyfloat.

Why is that?

I still don't get why you are drawing parallels between women who like consensual sex, and rapists.

Looking forward to you carefully breaking that down into little bold quotes and addressing things one at a time

It's also interesting that your reaction to the fact of women getting stuff shouted at them by men is basically yet some women posting on the net saying what he said was really out of line (which it was) is apparently beyond the pale and we all need to be shouted at. Oh wait...

PilchardPrincess
"Well his response wasn't to feel a bit vulnerable and get away was it. It was to go out in the media and call them a bunch of ugly dykes who needed a good seeing to / corrective rape."

RM
"'ugly women with short hair who I assume were lesbians, and surely hadn’t had a penis anywhere near them in some considerable time' "

He's saying they find men repellent (hadn't had a penis anywhere near them) and that he finds them repellent (ugly women). You've already accused be of demonstrable garbage so I'm not surprised you created words and meanings where they don't exist in the RM quote.

PilchardPrincess
"So his reaction was to be incredibly angry and to lash out with misogynist homophobic language.

When women get groups of men shouting stuff at them their response is to get away because they are scared.

You can't see the relevance of that at all?"

I'm asking whether a women should be believed if she accused them of saying something worse to her off-camera. I was quite clear in how I described the scenario. I was not asking how the women in question would react - that is an entirely different question. Really, this is not complicated.

PilchardPrincess
"But you don't really care about what happens to women and girls do you so not sure why I'm bothering."

Where do you pull this crap from? Try mastering reading plain English before moving on to reading minds.

PilchardPrincess
"You are misrepresenting what happened,..."

More nonsense - please quote me where I've distorted this story.

PilchardPrincess
"...and defending a man who came out with a load of misogynistic, homophobic vitriol, with overtones of corrective rape, aimed at a group of people that included a child. So, you know, whatever.

Dotheyfloat
"His remarks were undoubtedly tasteless..."

How hard can it be for you to read five words and let them sink into your brain? His language was indefensible, he admits that himself. The language used by both parties was distasteful. You appear to find that an unacceptable viewpoint because it doesn't conform to some ideology which seems to render you unable to read and comprehend basic English.

TheGirlFromIpanema
"1) Pointing to a picture of a rapist, sorry character and saying this is what a rapist looks like is not a sweeping statement though is it? They are pointing out one man/rapist. Hardly sweeping."

If a group of men recorded themselves chanting 'that is what a slag looks like' at an image of Anastasia Steele would feminists construe that as an attack on the character or women in general? And if that group were then accused by a single female of saying she was 'asking for it' as she walked into the cinema, would you regard that accusation as plausible based on the video evidence the men had taken of themselves, displaying an attitude towards an image of a female character that was highly derogatory?

TheGirlFromIpanema
"Dotheyfloat are you being deliberately obtuse?"

Are you avoiding answering the key points in two simple questions because the answers to them are 'yes' and 'yes'? Which, when applying the same values to the OP scenario, would support what I've previously said in this thread about the attitudes of the protesters and therefore the likely veracity of RM's claims. Or are you going to instead chime along with the others whining about their feelings and talking about points that have bugger-all to do with the questions I've asked, e.g. complaining about comparing 'slags' and 'rapists'?

Gay men can be knobs too. Who knew?

almond I agree with what you say but it's not just straight men who are more judgemental about lesbians. I have a gay male friend who is scathing about the fact his lesbian sister's current girlfriend is as he described her " yet another text book butch "

In a discussion with another friend, where we were talking about someone's daughter who had just told her parents she was gay, I was told she wouldn't be in the least bit bothered if her son was gay(and I believe her) but she would find it very difficult if her daughter were.

Exactly Hak!

Dotheyfloat are you being deliberately obtuse?

I'm mainly sharing this in case anyone hears of this guy coming to a school near you

I've not heard of him. His remarks were disgraceful.

Having watched the video link of the protestors I wouldn't want any of them coming to a school to talk about gender politics either. They sound ridiculous and ignore the fact it's women who made and are buying this tosh.

I suppose if any of you have teenage children then at least you know he is as well as being a nasty piece of work stupid enough to put his thoughts out in the open and you can avoid his books.

I don't understand the 50 Shades phenomenon at all, either the book or the film. I'm not remotely interested in BDSM but those who are seem to be saying it's an inaccurate portrayal. As works of art both seem to be abysmal.

I've read one of his books. One of the characters was a gay man who was positively presented.

I think this goes back again to the issue that prejudice against lesbians is very specific. Some people who can accept gay men can't accept the validity of women who are lesbians or not in relationships with men. It is all about these penis dodging women, to paraphrase his far more elegant remarks.

I can't believe we're back to comparing 'slags' to rapists. The reason why there is an issue with calling someone a slag as a slur is because there is nothing wrong with a woman being promiscuous in the first place. It is a sexist judgement on all women to call anyone a slag. It isn't a judgement on all men to call one of them a rapist because being a rapist is a bad thing. Actually, I heard it might be so bad that you can be sent to prison for being a rapist.

Absolutely he has apologised, and given money to charity.

But isn't it a bit strange that he even said it in the first place? That when roused to make an angry response to something a group of women did, the first think he thinks of is to call them ugly sex starved lesbians? He maks his living with words and the use of his wits- and that is is the very front of his mind?