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Original poster

The Mary Beard Appreciation Society

368 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 16/02/2015 11:11

Professor Mary Beard was one of about 130+ people who signed a letter to the Guardian this weekend, saying broadly that universities should be a place of discussion and debate, and the current habit of "no-platforming" women (it's almost always women) some students disagree with was inimical to the very purpose of education.

Out of these 130+ signatories, Mary Beard was the one the usual suspects piled on to, and she dealt with the barrage with such grace. The attacks were mostly divided between the "OMG transphobe" type" and the "very sad to see this nice old dear who didn't understand what she was signing" type, which is breathtakingly patronising when referring to one of the most brilliant academics we have. Most of the other signatories weren't attacked at all in the same way or in the same volume, although some signatories who are PoC were labelled "tokens" by the usual suspects, which is also amazingly patronising and dismissive of their choices and their expertise.

When I grow up, I want to be Professor Mary Beard. (But I would probably have to grow an extra couple of brains to do it.)

OP posts:
FloraFox · 18/02/2015 00:07

archeryannie I agree with what you've said and I certainly don't want there to be a culture of not being able to agree with someone because of other things they believe. Quite the opposite. In fact it's a major reason I disengaged with party politics. That sort of thinking is exactly the problem that leads to this excessive no platforming.

I'm not making any assumptions about what Mary believes and I have a great deal of admiration for her and sympathy with what's she's going through.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 18/02/2015 00:05

I would also like to say that I admire everyone who signed that letter.

I am proud to 'know' at least 3 of them. On here or fb.

And I am gutted that glosswitch has been hounded from twatter, and her blog.

TiggyD · 18/02/2015 00:02

You sure like to read into things whatever you like.

No platforming/censoring views could be about hunting to immigration, from creationism to fracking. If you believe their views are totally and utterly wrong and "an inverted pyramid of piffle" let them say it. So long as they don't want to encourage violence.

Who better to turn people from far right hate groups than the EDL chap talking against muslamic infidels?

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 18/02/2015 00:02

Nice to see you back on MN, Mary.

Glosswitch, Flowers in case you are lurking.

Agree with ArcheryAnnie's post above.

Original poster
ArcheryAnnie · 17/02/2015 23:50

Flora, I understand what you are saying, but I also think it's a bit unfair. You and I and other women here have a history with TiggyD, so see what they say as coming with baggage and implications, but we can't - and shouldn't want to - expect women without that history (whether its Mary B or anyone else) to pick up on that.

I would really like there to be a culture where there's an expectation of good faith, and I know we are very, very far away from that, but maybe a start would be to accept that it's possible for someone to take what a stranger says at face value, and find value in that, without knowing the back story or any hidden meanings which might make it seem like a hostile act to a third party.

Tl:dr I can't stand this thing where we have to watch who we agree with just in case they are the wrong person. It's bad when anybody does it.we shouldn't do it either.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 17/02/2015 23:32

trib I'm pretty sure TiggyD is associating the feminists who are being no-platformed with idiots to be given a microphone, in the same way the man on twitter last night was drawing a comparison between the feminists being no-platformed and Nick Griffen. That's why I asked Mary what she thinks of that.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 17/02/2015 23:28

mary... just in case you're still watching the thread. What you said in the Varsity piece was excellent. I'm really sorry that you've had to deal with the endless onslaught you had. I hope things calm down soon on that front, if I recall, you're supposed to be writing a book?

tribpot · 17/02/2015 23:23

No, I think this is the same misapprehension that I came across on Twitter last night. The point was about no platforming as a concept rather than the decision to no platform certain individuals or groups. That stifling debate is (nearly) always a bad thing and that if you disagree with a person's viewpoint it may be better to let them express it freely and have the audience judge its merits than to silence it. I think Mary's point (certainly on Twitter yesterday) was in opposition to those who support no platforming. Not that universally those who are denied a platform are idiots.

FloraFox · 17/02/2015 23:23

And lovely people you agree with.

What does this mean?

TiggyD · 17/02/2015 23:09

And lovely people you agree with.

FloraFox · 17/02/2015 22:57

mary is your position that feminists should not be no-platformed because the best thing to give an idiot is a microphone?

marybeard · 17/02/2015 22:54

love 'best thing to give an idiot is a microphone'!

FloraFox · 17/02/2015 22:52

TiggyD you're very much in favour of policing how women talk about gender and trans issues though.

TiggyD · 17/02/2015 22:40

I like Peter Tatchell. He's always included the 'T' in TBLG even when Stonewall didn't. Saw him at Brighton Pride one year. Was going to thank him but I felt too shy.

Love Mary Beard. She did a great interview with Richard Herring here. (Summer 2013). A lot of running jokes from previous episodes, and a lot of talk about cocks. She seems very nice through it all.

I'm against no platforming unless there's actual incitement to hate/violence. The best thing to give an idiot is a microphone.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/02/2015 22:09

Signing in.

And I have said it before but will say it again, by the definition of what constitutes a terf by many TA, I am one.

Which is fucking rediculous. ((lowers tone))

rivetingrosie · 17/02/2015 22:00

Flora I totally agree with you re Rupert Read not really believing the "trans women are women" mantra. I think this is actually true of almost everyone who repeats this ad infinitum, incl. many trans people - why defend it so aggressively otherwise? Why be so upset by misgendering? If someone called me "he" I'd be surprised but I wouldn't think it was violence!

StillLostAtTheStation · 17/02/2015 21:52

For sake of clarity in my last post the words It's no concern of mine w in bold should not be there. I fouled up the quote.

FloraFox · 17/02/2015 21:46

I believe very few people truly believe it stilllost but they are afraid to say so. Look what happened to Rupert Read a few weeks ago for saying that the issue of what is a woman is something that should be determined by all women. Now he's been brought to heel and says transwomen are women and he does not side with TERFs. I don't believe he really believes that and I'm sure he justifies it to himself intellectually by adding a silent qualifier like "in the social sense". I bet there are lots of politicians who are shitting bricks at the thought of someone asking them the same question.

House it's a complete misrepresentation of feminism, isn't it? Mind you as a gay man, feminism is a cheap trade off to keep on side with transactivists.

ApocalypseThen · 17/02/2015 21:43

feminists now believing biology is destiny

Yeah, and globally, for women, it is. That's part of the problem, surely!

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 17/02/2015 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StillLostAtTheStation · 17/02/2015 21:31

It's no concern of mine w to not be a TERF you have to fully accept the statement "trans women are women" with no qualifications whatsoever. This means a penis/testes etc is a female reproductive system because it is in the body of a woman. It means lesbians are bigots for rejecting transwomen as sexual partners. It means a man called Simon can stand up when the speaker asks for questions from women and say although he presents as male, he is a woman

Well that makes me one. It's no concern of mine how anyone "presents"as long as they are not hurting anyone.

But as far as I am concerned there's a difference between a biological woman and a self- declared woman with a penis.

FloraFox · 17/02/2015 21:27

Exactly Apoc. I see he tweeted something about feminists now believing biology is destiny, presumably trying to curry favour by making it clear he doesn't side with feminists. Too late, though. He's been pushed out of the cult.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 17/02/2015 21:21

Yes, funny that, Apocalypse.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 17/02/2015 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ApocalypseThen · 17/02/2015 21:14

It's interesting that he's outraged by the reaction he got but sees no connection between the misrepresentation of him and the misrepresentation of people called terfs by exactly the same individuals.

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